Or so does my TBM wife tell me with regards to TSCC. "It is good for the kids," so it's worth overlooking the fact that the whole thing is made up?? Santa Claus is like that.. it's a fun story for small children. But at latest by around age 10, usually earlier, they figure it out. But, belief in Santa Claus does not run their entire lives. It does not make decisions for them of the significant events in their lives. It does not require you to shell out perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars – at least many tens of thousands – over the lifetime to support building Santa Claus Land.

Why would anyone want to overlook the truth of how the universe works – or at least about how it certainly does _not_ work in favor of "it being good for the kids"? To live in a lie, do you want your kids also live in a lie. And their kids? Because it's good for them? I don't get it. Many people *die* for the truth, and consider it the most important thing in the life.

I am in your exact same boat. "it is a good way to live and raise your family", is what I am told. There are plenty of clubs out there too join, there are plenty of goodwill groups that help teach people and kids good moral values. I want truth in religion. Strange that my wife doesn't want this. I am concerned about raising my children and trying to hide truth from them just for a way of life or lifestyle. Sooner or later, like myself, they will run into the same information I have found and when that happens I need to know what to tell them.

Chris Johnson's video, "Reformed Egyptian", and the list of points mentioned on this site should be enough for any reasonably intelligent person. I am planning to expose children to this well ahead of the time when they would otherwise potentially consider going on a mission. I realize it will mean a disaster with wife, but a disaster with wife may occur way before then anyway. In fact, she is already concerned that I'm "undermining her attempt to raise our children with good values" (and that is only referring to me not being happy about having to attend the meetings).

Being from a relatively non-religious background myself, this situation is certainly something I did not see coming.

I was raised in the church by parents who believed every word of it, and still do.

If I had reached adulthood and learned that my parents had knowingly raised me in a religion that was full of lies and deception, I would have been furious. I would have zero respect for anything they had ever said or did. IMO, it's insane to knowingly raise children in a fear filled system full of lies.

If you do that, save your money for therapy. Your family will need a lot of it.

I just don't understand how anyone can still believe in this Mo-ism bs. I mean the physical historical evidence makes it clear that it's false. & when people say that "the devil" made all of the "contradictions" in order to "lead us into sin", all I can do is roll my eyes.

Yes.. in that way it's possible to explain away *anything* and *everything*. Of course, that's the way TSCC wants it: that way it is impossible for any criticism to stick with true believers. Like CA Girl said in another thread, only internal awakening or realization will awaken TBMs. Any external attempt to disprove the dogma makes them to hang on tighter and close their eyes tighter. "SATAN IS TRYING TO GET ME!!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2013 01:06AM by Facing Tao.

Perhaps I will have the opportunity to discuss my point of view sooner rather than later, after it becomes increasingly obvious that I'm not participating in TSCC activities. When the word of me having shared my point of view with the kids gets back to my TBM wife, though, and it unevitably will, **** will hit the fan. :(

One person's truth is another's untruth.

So I am (heretically) unconcerned with "truth" however one chooses to define it.

What distinguishes this cult:
This cult makes people sick.
There is at it's core evil.

This is what compels me to dedicated sustained action against it.

It makes me REAL ANGRY when people assume that non-Mos don't have good values, that non-Mos don't raise their children to have good values........
well tell that to Nelson Mandela's parents; Mother Theresa's parents; Obama's mother and grandparents; I could mention many others, but I don't need to.

But that's good brainwashing now, isn't it? Some pretty big items to add to my BIC DW's "shelf" when she found literally dozens of non-Mo families did a far better job of being a family than the unit in which she was raised. Less divorce, less dysfunction, more good deeds. Same goes when she found out that other churches (and secular charities, for that matter) did far more for the public good than did her little ward. Amazes me, personally knowing so many Mormons, what a bunch of self-righteous pricks they are, pitying the rest of us when they can't see that they are far more wretched.

Is teaching children blind obedience to authority really a good thing no matter what that person says or does especially if it's in the name of god? Have your children ask questions and think critically. No doubt, people in TSCC won't like it, but kids need to learn to stand up for themselves.

After all, when your kids are old enough, shouldn't they be asking how does Santa delivery all those gifts? Why does some good but poor kid get nothing for Christmas and some rich evil little bastard get tons of stuff?

Personally, I think it's time members start asking why they should give TSCC 10% of their income and what exactly is the church doing with that money?

It's NOT "good for the kids!" It's f*cking TOXIC for the kids! The kids suffer most of all, particularly when they are teens and are aware of the suffering.

If the truth doesn't matter then what was this song about? (from memory):

True to the truth that our parents have cherished,
True to the truth for which martyrs have perished,
To god's command, soul, heart and hand,
Faithful and true we shall ever stand.

You see that sort of sentiment amongst the intellectual-new ordery-"we still love the culture" modern turd polishing movement. I can't think of a more frightening phrase than the truth doesn't matter.

There are other ways to teach your children to be good people. And they aren't near as expensive as TSCC.

I thought that if I had children that I would find a church that taught morals-- since no children, then I didn't have to do that-- but if I did I would NOT have gone back to the TSCC. It is an unhealthy environment for children and teaches the boys misogyny and the girls submissiveness.

I am always so surprised when Mormon's throw out a teleological argument to defend the church. Just...some of the fundamental maxims of their religion, 'Only being one true church, follow God's 'commandments' to a T, one right way to live your life, etc.' just don't really fit with the idea that the church's truthfulness is dependent on its consequences. Consequentialism is just not compatible with a true belief in Mormonism and it is funny to me that so many don't realize that.

There's got to be a better way to raise a family! Living a false story your whole life and teaching your children to do likewise can't be the best way. Morality is inherent, and can be taught independently of religious mythology.

The only reason it seems religion is the best way is that no other way has ever been promoted. History is full of good, productive examples of those raised godless. It's just that no one wants to consider it.

We are the one true church ... where truth doesn't matter.

Yeah! Let's go with that.

The truth is available to anyone. And you don't have to get it from anyone else.
I have come to believe this is a personal spiritual journey. It's about you, and it's not about what you are willing to sacrifice, it's what you are willing to receive.
And since it's a personal spiritual journey, you can't get it wrong. And no one can tell it is right or wrong because it is not their journey.

It is tscc that claims a) they have the truth and b) the truth matters.

Have her read Moroni 10:3-5, then ask if she wants to raise hypocrites.

Aside from the church's own claim to truth, she is right...it makes absolutely no difference in the world of Mormonism.

In Chris Johnson's video where the parallels Jehova's wittnesses with the TSCC he points out that the JW organization has reassigned a large number of concepts, even words, to different meanings.

This same thing happens in TSCC.. "the truth" is what TSCC tells you, and you better believe it, or else.

I, too, believe that truth is available to anyone – no organization or rites are needed. Meditation may be helpful, but it comes in many forms. For many closeness to nature is meditation. No matter what the means, quieting the noisy mind seems to be very useful in spiritual practice.

In a situation where a family is split between a TBM spouse, and a spouse who has (re)gained (or, perhaps, never lost) their reason, the best hope for the children is likely the example of the person on the outside of TSCC. Calm and positive discussions and sharing of the irrefutable proof of the TSCC scam with children when they come of age where they start to have the ability to understand the flaws in the system. Of course, it then depends on the child whether that works or not in early teen years, for example, in many cases children have already gone through several years of singing "Follow the prophet, follow the prophet..." Children might be resentful, yes, but if that keeps the family intact while they're young, perhaps it's worth it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2013 10:36PM by Facing Tao.

I think the key struggle is in this arena. Do TBM parents get to continue to deceive the mutual children of their enlightened spouse because they were temple married and only found out later about the deceptions and frauds.

Clearly I think lying to children at any age and purposefully deceiving them about the Mormon religion just to keep the TBM spouse at ease is a serious betrayal of parental responsibility.

What has to be done seems obvious!

When and with what style, that is what will be learned over the next several years as we share our experiences with each other. I do not see how creating another generation of TBMs to save a conflicted marriage can be the right choice, but those who are making that choice will hopefully share their authentic experience with those who are considering doing the same thing.

How's that working out?

In 1965 the Church had the Book of Abraham exposed as a fraud and hid it from parents or parents hid it from children. It goes back even much farther than that, it's just a matter of deciding if the Church continues to consume the children on our watch or not. Who's going to help stop the lies? When? Why should a little kid have to be raised up in a fraud cult with a knowing parent. How do they trust the mixed messages and the conflict. Tough, tough issues that must be sorted out to stop the BIC machine. That machine is now the only legitimate growth they are now experiencing. BICs making BICs, because that's their genetic heritage--being Mormon. Why not, it's a family oriented religion afterall!?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2013 10:52PM by gentlestrength.

...automatically ignore or trivialize facts/truths/realities that conflict with Mormon doctrines, teachings, and beliefs.

Mormon 'programming' causes children (and LDS teens and adults) to betray their awareness and intelligence, to shut off their rational thinking when it causes them to question the LDS religion and doubt its nonsensical aspects (there are so many!).

Psychologically wounding Mormonism systematically uses fear, guilt, and shame to psychologically coerce obedience in thought, word, and deed in Mormons of all ages. Talks by GA's, church lessons, and LDS scriptures are filled with notions passed off as 'truths' that engender the three negative emotions.

Latter-day Saints have been conditioned to NOT think for themselves about a myriad of things, and to mentally regurgitate irrational notions that Mormons believe are 'true' simply because they've been 'brainwashed' to believe as much.

If you're interested in info. about how cultic Mormonism affects people, including children, psychologically and what they can do to liberate themselves from it, go to http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

If you want plenty of facts about lying adulterer Joseph Smith, the LDS novel called the Book of Mormon, 'faith'-destroying Latter-day Saint historical facts, and more, you can search for posts done by me. Some of the belief-busting info. is on LDS Church websites, no less!

Good luck!

Self-refuting statement. Easy retort... "Is it true that truth does not matter."


Stupid should hurt.

HH =)

"It is good for the kids" When my former TBM DS told me that TSCC was bullsh!t, my first reaction was this quote. How could he not believe anymore? What will the kids do? How will they grow up.

Then my shelf crashed and I found out that it is all bullsh!t. My DS & DIL are raising the grandkids without all the brainwashing crapola. And yes, they are very happy.

They are in the same boat as me. Can't formally resign due to family issues, but we all will eventually.

The deal is -- The Church is NOT a good way to raise children. Mormons only say that cause that is what they are told.

Anything that is good about it can be found outside the church, either in a different church that was not so consuming and judgmental or even at home in the family.

There is no magic for children in the church. And in my opinion, there is a lot of damage done.

I would ask your wife what good things she thinks the kids are getting from church and then talk about ways to get those same things outside the church. You might even want to discuss the bad things depending on where she is.

The truth DOES matter. A faith not based on the Truth is on a potentially very unshaky foundation. If one is misled to believe what is not the Truth and discovers it later in life, it could be very painful and challenging for them as they struggle to find out whom (and what) they can trust to tell the truth, and what they truly believe in. That said, a faith based on some Truth may still be beneficial, at least to the degree that it is based on the Truth.

Obviously not looking at it from a spiritual point of view.