I have asked myself this question quite a few times since leaving Mormonism. And for me my answer is NO. I enjoy making my own decisions spending my own money and time.
If there was a god, I'd have to ask him to give me a pass on all the church stuff. I made my peace with that when I first left Mormonism. I just can't tolerate all the stuff that comes with organized religion.
I found the true church! And it's got a very convenient "meeting house"...it's between my ears! So, completely portable and handy at all times, and cheap too!
If there is one "true" church I'm guessing it's so far from any heretofore human manufactured church that I would at least want to know the specifics.
My guess would be that it would be so affirming and positive and the complete antithesis of any church I've ever imagined that I MIGHT be tempted to join.
You'd have to define 'true church' in a way that people could understand first.
A church is an institution. Asking for a true church is like asking for a true hospital or a true hamburger joint. Is the true church the one that will provide you the means to salvation? Is the true church the one whose leadership $god speaks to? What are the repercussions to not joining the 'true' church? What is required to join?
If there was an institution that god implemented on this earth to help his kids get back to him, I'd want to know. However, this sort of thing requires that god be selective, and kind of a dick as a parent; wouldn't any good parent want what's best for his/her kids?
subeamnotlogedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have asked myself this question quite a few > times since leaving Mormonism. And for me my > answer is NO. I enjoy making my own decisions > spending my own money and time.
Making our own decisions IS the true church. The great quest in life is in seeking out our own truths. The true church is not a building, and it's not a group of people. Until likeminded people find each other and decide to celebrate their likemindedness in a building. C'est la religion :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2013 08:18PM by lenina.
Most certainly I would want to know which faith, and which faith-based organisation, is most "true". I would feel secure and liberated, rather than unduly restricted, in knowing that fact. Spirituality does NOT have to be restrictive just because a particular spiritual path (naturally) believes that its faith is "true".
I am a follower of a faith (Hare Krishna) and a congregation member of a faith-based organisation (ISKCON) naturally because I believe in that faith. But my faith teaches that although there may be one Absolute Truth other paths may still offer some truth and spiritual value and we have the full right to make our own decisions. In various spiritual matters also there is a significant degree of freedom of choice. Within reasonable boundaries, you do what you want to do. :-)
That freedom of choice (in the Hare Krishna faith tradition) includes how we spend our money and time. That's something very important to me personally.
I don't think a true "church" exists (but right – or at least as right as our mortal minds can understand – philosophy likely does). Some are most certainly closer to the truth, but even they are likely still ways off. In almost all cases it seems the egos of the people who are in the "leadership" of any given church get in the way. I personally consider Jesus' original teachings (which we now only have an echo of) one of the best guidance. However, his teachings could be summarized to three items: 1) love, 2) compassion, 3) forgiveness – everything else has been added on later by various churches. Buddha taught the same things. Hence, with lots of soul searching, I find the modern Buddhism (or buddhism-like philosophies) the cleanest, likely closest to the truth, and New Age philosophy the most congruent with how I feel. But would I seek a church for spiritual growth? Probably not (I never would have touched TSCC with a stick had it not been DW). Spiritual teachers like Tolle have really interesting ideas to listen to, and to ponder, but they are more like food for thought on the way. Ultimate realization comes from inside, not from listening to a sermon.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2013 09:35PM by Facing Tao.
There was never a true church. Just man after man after man twisting all of Jesse teaching make him more and more supergod. Jesus just taught a philosophy and got to sited as became taught line upon line.
Huh? I'm not disagreeing here...just don't understand what the heck you just said. I mean literally, all the words are English, but when you string them all together the way you did...well, I'm lost. Can you re-state?
Lots of churches have made that claim, and as far as I know, those claims are not backed up by facts. Instead, religious beliefs are promoted by wishes and emotions, promises of heavenly rewards and/or threats for non-conformity.
Show me a church that can verify its claims, and that doesn't promote those claims through manipulation or fear. Then we can talk. Show me a religion where there is no attempt to control members or separate them from a considerable sum of money. Show me a church that doesn't believe in some form of magic, but is grounded in reality.
Looking for a "true" religion implies that there are easy answers to life's difficult questions, and that those answers are the same for everyone. There ARE no easy answers. Many things are unknowable. People should be figuring out what they, personally believe, and what makes their OWN life meaningful, instead of looking to someone else to do it for them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2013 11:22AM by imaworkinonit.
If there was/is a god, I would like to know, but I'm not going to accept "emotion + faith" as proof. I'd need some very substantial evidence to back up the claim. "I don't knows" don't get graduated into "conclusive evidence for god" either.
"If there is a true church would you want to know?"
If your answer is no, then you are choosing to be ignorant. How can you then point your finger at a mormon for choosing to be ignorant? They have a preference on how they want their life to roll out and so do you. One would think that after leaving the church that you would have learned your lesson to not remain ignorant to facts...
What facts are you referring to? Hypothetical ones?
I wouldn't feel obligated to listen if someone point-blank asked me "if there was a true church, would you want to know", because that would sound like a sales pitch to me. Declining a religious conversation is NOT choosing ignorance. I believe it's AVOIDING aggravation. Dude, I've ALREADY reexamined every thing I thought I knew, realized I was wrong, and course corrected. Along with that, I abandoned magical thinking, which is ALWAYS a substantial part of every religion I've ever heard of (except Unitarianism).
There comes a point when you lose the desire to debate about the existence of God, or other non-provable beliefs. I've had conversations like that enough times to realize it's not productive. Now, if someone had something NEW to add, like EVIDENCE, that would be something worth listening to. I will always be willing to reexamine what I believe and learn new things. But I don't need to have that conversation with anyone else.
I don't need to listen to every sales pitch for someone's "one true church", just like I wouldn't to listen to every amazing earning opportunity with network marketing. That's not choosing ignorance. It's realizing that some things are a waste of time and energy.
And I do realize that everyone has a preference on how they live their lives. That includes boundaries. They don't have to listen to what I have to say about their religion, nor do I have to listen to them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2013 08:00PM by imaworkinonit.
I'm always searching for 'the truth.' But as for churches, they are all man-made. So, "No," on trying to find the true church, because I don't believe there is such a thing.
If you want to worship a deity, why have a church between you and that deity? In my opinion, churches were formed for their leader's advantage. They get to have power over people and collect tithes. There's no case I know of where you get a signed receipt from Jesus or Elohim for that tithing. It goes into the control of men, not god. This is the biggest scam ever perpetrated. Here we have a group of people (Church leaders) who you actually pay tons of money to.. and then they get to tell you what to do! We were all suckered into this by being taught it from childhood, when our heads were soft and we were vulnerable to it.