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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
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Posted by: Losing Her ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 11:07AM

I've been reading this board for a bit now, and something struck me. We all care about the LDS for some reason(s). I reckon none of us are members (thus the and some never were. We're not in THE church. So why do we care what Monson, or Kimball or BY did or said? Why do we care if our spouse, child, coworker is a TBM and judges us for our sins/failings/apostasy?
We're here, posting and reading because we care. Why do the new church essays get any response here? Why are they even read by us?
I care because my wife seems to be deepening her testimony, and it scares me. I'm afraid she'll look at me as not being worthy and end it. I'm afraid I'll propose watching "Breaking Bad" or listen to the radio and she says she can't (isn't pleasin' to Heavenly Father). I'm afraid her callings will mutliply until she's giving LDS Inc the time she promised to us. I'm afraid my 2 little children will grow to be bigger children and feel hurt like so many here. Hurt by the lies, hurt by the deceptions, feeling like they lost so much time if/when they acknowledge the truth. I'm afraid she'll eventually say I'm satan influencing her when I call BS on the BS (we all know there's a lot of it). But I can't let it go unchallenged - even though this is the church of TRUTH!
Even acknowledged truths are seen as suspect (JS wasn't a polygamist - Emma said so! Ok maybe he had a few "spiritual" virgin wives. Well, some were married, but they were only for sealing in the next life (unjustified by D&C 132, BTW).Ok, he was a polyganist but in 1890 Heavenly Father said STOP, so they did. Well maybe they didn't stop, and it was political, but Heavenly Father said OK.) and justifiable. Watching the mental gymnastics hurts my head.
So why can't I just accept it, and why does everyone else care?

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 11:16AM

A lot of it is curiosity for me. The Mormon Church was a part of my life for over 30 years. If I just dismiss that and try to forget about it, then I'm discounting a huge chunk of my life.

I don't discuss the Church with my still-TBM friends, so it's also my way of finding out what's going on with an organization that is still everything to them, without actually discussing it with them.

That's not why I'm with this group. These are people who have been where I've been, many are where I'm at now and many are where I hope to be someday.

We have the Church as a shared experience and can relate to one another.

But when it comes to what's going on with the Church itself, I'd say yeah, curiosity mostly.

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Posted by: exldsdudeinslc ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 11:20AM

Only speaking for myself, this is what i have now. My family looks at me like a nutcase. I care because I'm human. I've invested my entire life until recently into the cult. That's a big deal. It's taken my time, money, self esteem, decision making ability, logic and reasoning, sexual fulfillment, confidence, and so many other important things from me. So, yeah...i can't just let it go, as nice as that idea sounds.

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Posted by: exldsdudeinslc ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 11:22AM

I'm kind of learning to walk for the first time, too. Learning from people on the site who've been through similar things is priceless.

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Posted by: cynthus ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 11:27AM

Actually - I come here to find out what the church is up to-- I care because I have eight siblings, two parental units, and hundreds of other relatives in the church. I need to see what the heck the TSCC is up to so that I am not blind-sided by the next letter, email, junk from relatives. ;-)

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Posted by: The exmo formerly known as Br. ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 12:51PM

and struggling mightily to leave it I feel I'm entitled. Also, when I left it was one of the loneliest experiences of my life. I didn't know a single person who had willingly left. It was a genuine shock to me when I discovered how many people come here. I'd like to think there are lurkers here who may follow my example. Maybe it will help them feel less lonely and less like a mutant than I did when I walked.

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Posted by: Nolongerquestioning81 ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 01:00PM

While I'm not out of the church yet (family reasons), I don't believe at all. I do however care about my family still, and would love to find a way to show them the truth. It hurts to see the ones you love lied to and taken advantage of. So I read. I form logical arguments in my head based on others experiences with/leaving TSCC in a hope that I can find a way to tactfully and happily show my family the light. That's why "I" still care.

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Posted by: BigM ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 01:01PM

I am oscillating between anger at being duped for 50 years and sad for those who I have served in leadership positions. I am awaiting and despising the almost certain rescue effort that will be implemented on my behalf once word gets out. I have been in a few bishoprics and am in one now. I have wasted hundreds of hours deconstructing what I once was quite certain was true.
One question, what does the acronym TSSC stand for?

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Posted by: Nolongerquestioning81 ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 01:03PM

The so-called church.

I found this helpful when I started to read the board:

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Posted by: raisedbyjackmormons ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 01:03PM

The so-called church. TSCC

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Posted by: BigM ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 01:05PM

That makes sense, TSSC must be a typo when used.

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Posted by: what me worry? ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 01:08PM

I think for the same reason that Frankie and Betsy Andreu cared so much about showing that Lance Armstrong lied.

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Posted by: zenjamin ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 02:35PM

How can we walk away when so many yet remain behind barbed wire.

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Posted by: NoShirking ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 04:23PM

I couldn't agree more.

I care because of friends and family that are still very much in the death grip of TSCC. I care for these people and hope to help them see that truth must match reality. I hope to help them as much as possible in this regard.

On the lighter side, however, TSCC is a train wreck and I cannot help but rubberneck.

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Posted by: utahstateagnostics ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 04:38PM

People who escaped oppression often want to go back to help those still in captivity.

Very common in human behavior.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 02:40PM


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Posted by: Facing Tao ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 02:52PM


This seems to be the connecting thread, yes. People who can't live with themselves living (and teaching) a lie, leave TSCC and end up here. :) Another point that has been brought up multiple times is the fact that in some shape or form TSCC has been a notable influence – if evil – in people's lives here, and so understanding it from the outside is important in some ways to understand ourselves (besides the sheer curiosity..).

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Posted by: nonsequiter ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 02:44PM

You can leave the mormon church, but like it or not the church will always be a part of your past. And for many here it was a rather big part.

A lot of Mormons mock exmormons with the phrase: They left the church but can't leave it alone. Well it is the opposite in most cases, the church doesn't leave anyone alone.

Whether it is constant contacting, zealous family, or intrusive youtube ads, the church is always on the peripheral from now on.

Combine that with how effectively they play on your emotions and mind. The church is all about emotional/mental manipulation. And even in small doses that is not just something you happily walk way from. And for many here who were in the church for years and years...

Anyway the point is, talking all this out, hearing from others what you shoved down for so long, getting it all out and in the open, it is therapeutic and helpful.

Edit: And by the way, there are many here that are still members as well (and I don't just mean the supposed church spies) I myself am still considered "active" but it is kinda complicated.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2014 02:46PM by nonsequiter.

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Posted by: Ihidmyself ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 02:55PM

why they should care that whites are racist? The truth, for most of us, is that the church won't leave us alone. We are looked down on, they try to preach to our children, we are shunned by friends and family, we constantly hear utterly ridiculous claims and are required to quietly sit through the insanity and keep quiet.

I'm fortunate in that my wife left the church with me but so many other are left with trying to make a marriage work while Mormonism constantly teaches the believing spouse that the non-believer is not worthy of them.

So why do we care? We care, because you can leave the church but the church can't leave you alone.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2014 02:56PM by Ihidmyself.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 02:58PM

Yeah, for those with TBM family, they almost need to keep up with what the Church is telling those family members, so that they know what will be coming at them shortly afterwards.

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Posted by: Facing Tao ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 03:02PM

>> I'm afraid she'll eventually say I'm satan
>> influencing her when I call BS on the BS

Funny you should say that! When I read this, that's what my TBM wife told me less than 12 hours ago when I gave her links to the essays, and discussed the "stone in the hat", and the 6000+ year old Earth (I was told that "Earth has maybe been recycled.. its previous users were the dinosaurs, other hominids et al," OR that "it was transported here from another dimension ~6000 years ago"... both quite likely scenarios ;).

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2014 03:12PM by Facing Tao.

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Posted by: peculiargifts ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 03:21PM

I was raised to believe that Mormons were noble people, courageous pioneers who suffered greatly due to the hatred of Gentiles. I've never lived in Utah, and the Mormons whom I knew seemed like genuinely friendly, kind, nice people.

So it was a serious shock to me, as someone who was aware that I am gay from very early childhood, to discover how viciously, mindlessly, cruelly bigoted many of those same people could be about sexuality. They always justified their hatred by saying things like "I must be true to my faith." "Heavenly Father hates homosexuals." And doing everything, including repeating horrible lies incessantly, to prevent gay people from having the same chances at happiness that straight, white males take for granted.

So many people whom I had respected were spouting nonsense like "love the sinner but hate the sin" all the while that they were showing their love by ruthlessly trashing gays and doing everything in their power to keep gays from any kind of reasonable freedom or peace of mind.

And I know some amazing Mormon women. I just could not understand how those women could live with the narrow limits that are imposed on them by the Mormon church.

Then, the whole question of non-white people. I have ancestors and relatives in just about all of the other groups. And I know perfectly well that it makes no difference, except in the minds of many people.

I found this board while looking for some answers about how those seemingly decent people could have such a giant disconnect in their thinking. Especially people for whom the supposed persecution of the church in the past is such a huge part of self identity. I could never understand how people who feel that they have been historic victims of bigotry could turn around and dump all of that same evil on anyone who is not a straight, white male.

Once I found RfM, I got hooked on some of the discussions, and began to really like some of the contributors. I became very interested in what individuals on the board think, and how their ideas have evolved. More than anything, I began to feel a new sense of hope, as I read more and more about people's journeys out of the church and into the light.

I care about that from a very personal standpoint. I also love, as I go about my own personal journey, to find so many other people who can see beyond the hype and look at the world with a newer, kinder, and --- I hope --- more joyful understanding.

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Posted by: The 1st FreeAtLast ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 03:38PM

Back in 1996, Eric K., the creator of, could have not cared so much, i.e., he could've decided to not use his time and computer skills to create this website. But he did want to share in cyberspace his concerns about Mormonism and by so doing, stepped on the field of history, so to speak.

Fast-forward to early 2006, when Grant Palmer, the author of "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins" and retired LDS Church Eductional System director gave an interview to John Dehlin of quasi-fame. In that 4-part interview, Palmer, a lifelong Latter-day Saint who'd been disfellowshipped by the Morg for writing his book (which church-owned Deseret Books sold for two years!) said that Monson had acknowledged that "the church is hemorrhaging" members.

If you're interested, the interview is Episode 4 at

In an interview earlier this year, Palmer revealed that he learned via a Gen. Authority (a 70) "that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are 'church broke,' meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly 'because the people need it,' meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: 'No, he doesn’t.' The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims." (Ref.

So, the multi-billion-dollar LD$ Church effectively buys the silence of so-called "prophets, seers, and revelators", who use their ecclesiastical authority to ensure that the SCAM of Mormonism continues to dupe unsuspecting and vulnerable persons around the globe. Fraud is a criminal act. Your wife and children have been suckered by the chronically dishonest Mormon Church, as were you, me, and millions of other people since 1830. Mormonism is the costliest and most-enduring swindle in American history!

In your post, you used the word "afraid" a lot. Cultic Mormonism systematically uses fear as well as guilt and shame to psychologically manipulate Latter-day Saints into praying, paying, and otherwise obeying. Info. about how Mo-ism negatively affects people psychologically, including a list of 40 engendered fears, is at

Instead of allowing fear to be in the driver's seat of your life so often, why not replace it with courage? Author Meg Cabot once wrote: "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgement that something is more important than fear."

Winston Churchill, Britain's prime minister during the Second World War, said that "Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees all others."

Ultimately, it comes down to choices. You can either placate your LDS-'brainwashed' wife, or you can act in accordance with the truth, namely, that Mormonism is a fraud perpetrated by the propaganda-addicted and increasingly-rich LD$ Church over many generations.

As a father, it's your responsibility to protect your children from harm, including psychological harm. You cannot stand by while your kids are raised in cultic Mormonism, which has wounded some young people so severely that they have killed themselves (news reports are online; Dr. Mark Malan, a mental health professional in UT, has studied the grim phenomenon).

America's leading cult expert, Steven Hassan, who is also a licensed mental health professional, lists the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on his website ( as a thought-control organization (ref.

If you're going to care about anything, I suggest you care about the quality of your life and that of your children, which cultic Mo-ism will absolutely undermine in the years to come if they are exposed to systematic LD$ indoctrination.

You're the captain of the ship of your existence; it'll go in whichever direction you set. While you can't force your wife to leave the duplicitous Mormon Church, you can put your foot down relative to your kids' involvement in it. They're little and are unaware of the psychological damage that Mormonism will do them. Your wife, an adult, clearly won't take off her mental blinders to see the truth. The responsibility falls to you.

Finally, I wish things were easier for you, but they are as they are and need to be dealt with as such.

Good luck!

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Posted by: Facing Tao ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 06:24PM

That was an excellent post!

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 04:50PM

My parents basically surrendered my upbringing to the Mormon church. The scars are too deep to ignore. I am partly formed by Mormonism, and I hate it. I have to unravel my bonds. I hope some will hear me and save their children from the maws of that great deceiver, even Mormonism.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2014 04:52PM by donbagley.

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