Re: LDS Missionaries Presently Serving

Here on RfM, and on other parts of the Internet, there are a number of LDS missionaries who are (sometimes almost frantically) requesting help in leaving their missions and returning home. (The more complicated situations, obviously, are those missionaries who are serving in places where passports are required.) Not only are the specific missionaries who are posting using this information, but the information is also being read and remembered by other missionaries (and potential future missionaries) who are reading these discussions...and the information is, in addition, being passed through the grapevine as well.

I know (I think!!!) that ALL missionaries are legal adults (they are at least 18 years old). I, personally, have never heard of any missionaries who are less than 18 years old, so can it can be presumed that ANY missionary is a legal adult?

Second: I know that if a member of the LDS Church wants to resign from the LDS Church, they simply have to mail a resignation letter to the proper authority and--AS OF THAT MOMENT--they are legally no longer a member of the LDS Church.

My question is: Since missionaries are VOLUNTEERS (and are, in addition, paying for the "privilege" of being volunteers), is a similar method of "resignation" LEGALLY valid if that person wants to leave their mission and return to their home? In other words, if a missionary (anywhere in the world) wants to leave, and they inform the proper LDS "authority" (Mission President???), then--as of that moment--are they LEGALLY free to demand their passport, and their return airline ticket, and are they LEGALLY released from their missionary obligations as of that moment of "resignation"???

I know there is a shitload of verbiage and possible threats and coercion of various kinds probably going to happen to any missionary who makes this particular announcement (and so do the missionaries who are asking for help; most of them are extremely frightened of what is immediately going to happen), but LEGALLY...do they have the RIGHT to announce that they are terminating their volunteer status as of that moment, returning home, and that they are exercising their LEGAL right to regain immediate possession of their own passport (and also, a ticket home--which, my impression is, has already been paid for by the missionary, or on behalf of the missionary by the missionary's relatives)???

What is the LEGAL status of an American missionary who is outside of the U.S., wants to terminate their missionary status immediately, and wants to go home?

I would greatly appreciate the combined wisdom and legal knowledge which exists here on RfM (and so would many very unhappy missionaries, too).

Thank you!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2014 03:52PM by tevai.

Yes they absolutely do. They didn't sign a contract in which they are somehow reimbursed for their work (even then there are ways around it). Like you said, they are adults and volunteers. My guess is that those items will be withheld from them because the person in charge will be trying to dissuade them or think of it as a fit. They might say the person has to talk to someone or parents must be called. All of that is church authority and carries church consequences if not followed. But as far as the American legal system, yes the missionary has the right to demand his possessions and leave at any time with no legal consequences. As long as you're in another country with the aid of your passport, American law applies (unless you break the laws of the country you are in). If you are in a country that doesn't recognize your passport (which you will be told before you leave America), then the laws of that country apply (but no missionaries are sent to such countries). Either way, no one is going to make an adult volunteer finish his work or be denied his own possessions. At worst, if the volunteer is relied upon in a way that causes financial detriment to somebody, then they have to reimburse that money. That is the worst it gets. Otherwise, promises to do something are not legally enforceable and may be revoked at any time.

Just curious. What kind of formal agreement, if any, do missionaries sign? Are there copies online anywhere?

I have no idea.

In other words, it's slavery.

There are no laws or agreements which can keep missionaries from quitting and going home. They stay because they want to or because of brainwashing. That's all there is to it.

Doesnt separation of church and state mean there can be no LEGAL obligation to serve in a church position?

No, I don't believe that's the case at all--especially outside the U.S. where the laws or constitution don't apply as clearly. However, as many have posted, there's no contract.

Ty!

They don't lose their rights by leaving the US unless they break the laws of that country.

I don't know of a country on earth that allows for involuntary servitude or that enforces Mormon rules and expectations.

They are LEGALLY free to demand their passport at any moment.
Whether the MP or the Brethren back home will give them grief
over it is a different story.

If the MP does not give them back their passport they could to
the local authorities and file a complaint.

They have the legal right to take up and leave without telling
anyone anything. I know of one missionary who decided to leave,
didn't tell anyone in authority, had non-missionary friends help
him obtain a plane ticket home and just vanished from the
Mission home with no word to anyone.

Once in Canada a missionary was doing just that. He made the
error of telling his companion. Word got out and one of the
Missionaries, Elder William Shunn, did what he thought was
necessary to stop a blunder with "eternal consequences" . . .
he called in a bomb threat on the escaping elder's flight.

Shunn later left the Church, and wrote up his experiences titling them "Terror on flight 789"

http://www.shunn.net/terror/

Mormonism makes a lot of "church policy" things look like the LAW. That's to scare you into obedience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2014 04:30PM by baura.

I believe there are US Consulates in every country in which there are missionaries. The missionary can go to the consulate and get a new passport, if necessary.

I'm sure that retention of missionaries by fear is one of the reasons that Mormon leadership lulls the membership into a persistent infantile state. When missionaries are out in the field, most of them can't think for themselves, since they have never been encouraged or even allowed to think for themselves. Then the church is able to bully them as required.

The mission president must give you your US passport, but he does not have to give you a ticket home. My experience was that I was held in a locked room in the mission home, until family at home raised a big enough fuss to get my plane ticket.

In many countries the Mission Presidents are friends with local officials in charge of foreigners and friends with people in the US embassy.

In practice it can be very difficult to get that plane ticket out of the mission president.

BG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My experience was that I was held in
> a locked room in the mission home, until family at
> home raised a big enough fuss to get my plane
> ticket.

Isn't that called kidnapping?

It's called false imprisonment and is totally illegal.

BG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My experience was that I was held in
> a locked room in the mission home, until family at
> home raised a big enough fuss to get my plane
> ticket.

Isn't this legally kidnapping? You cannot hold an adult against their will legally, correct?




> In many countries the Mission Presidents are
> friends with local officials in charge of
> foreigners and friends with people in the US
> embassy.

Something to definitely keep in mind (and I hadn't thought of it, for which I'm kind of kicking myself in the rear right now!).

If the consulate or embassy does not cooperate with the missionary so far as a passport, etc., the stink will reach even Utah.

Thank you, EVERYONE, for the immensely helpful information. Anyone else who has info or experiences or wisdom to contribute, PLEASE do!

One additional question right now:

As a hypothetical: If a serving missionary sent in their resignation-from-the-LDS Church letter, then they would be immediately given their passport as well as a ticket home, right? The mission couldn't just turn them out on the street, and also wouldn't want them anywhere near LDS activities, right?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2014 04:34PM by tevai.

There's no guarantee that the ex-missionary would immediately get his passport and a ticket home.

I believe if you leave on your own, you have to pay for your own flight back home. Also, at least in my mission, they insisted on keeping your passport at the mission office for "safe keeping." I never gave them my passport. My 2nd comp wouldn't give it to them either. We're both from border states and knew how important papers would be in a foreign country.

My other comps would give me crap about it, but who cares. My native comps understood.

The missionary should contact the US consulate for that country first, explaining what s/he plans to do and that the MP holds their passport. The Consulate staff will render assistance to get the missionary home, and will NOT take any crap from the MP.

I believe this is true. If you can manage to contact someone from the State Dept in an embassy or consulate, it would be SUCH a trip if a representative from State would accompany the young mishie on a visit to the MP and say something like, "You may be unaware, Mr. MP, that it is illegal for any adult not to carry proper documentation of citizenship here in our country. Would you please produce young Mr. So-and-So's passport immediately so that I can verify that he is here legally?" The MP wouldn't DARE refuse. And then (if all goes well, the State rep would hand the passport to the mish, tell him IN FRONT OF the MP, to keep it with him at all times, AND tell the MP he needs to do the same thing with every missionary under his command.

Of course, the MP would excrete bricks once the State rep was gone, but at least, the mish would have his passport. It would be a good idea if he had his own bank account and the means to get home already lined up.

I wonder if the State Dept has made some sort of under-the-table arrangement with the Mo-church to cover the confiscation of passports. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Anyone know a brave missionary willing to try an experiment? (Must be in a foreign country where the MP holds the passport--especially helpful if MP is not an upstanding Mormon, much less human being)

1. Incite repeated disagreements with MP (start small, build to crescendo)

2. Manipulate conversations and "story arc" so MP resorts to openly withholding passport in order to force the missionary to stay in country.

3. Take all documentation of everything to consulate, in country and home country news outlets, blogosphere, Twitter, etc. to show the kind of behavior the Church is engaged in (possibly illegal in some cases as far as separating missionaries and passports and withholding them).

If this were to happen frequently enough or with enough exposure, I can think of two possible outcomes:

1. Church doubles down and silences dissent, inviting more instances and ultimately legal or other ramifications

2. Is forced to allow missionaries to keep their passports

In either case, I think the outcome is good.

Any missionary may walk away from his/her mission without any notice. The only consequence is the church will not pay their return travel.

So, provided they or someone else can buy the plane ticket or whatever, they are free to go.

Regarding their passport, if it is not in their possession, the only reason the MP can be keeping it is for safety. To refuse to let them have their own passport could come under kidnapping or human trafficking laws.

In many countries the missionaries can be required to have their passport and visa with them at all times. So they should already have a passport in their possession.

Is it possible for a missionary to carry a open flight ticket home with them and keep for the duration? Or is there an expire date on plane tickets?

If any Mission President told me that he was withholding my passport and refusing to give it to me, I'd 1) inform him that I would be contacting the nearest American Embassy (well, Canadian in my case), and 2) from that point forward, I'd consider myself no longer a missionary, so I would be staying home and watching TV, or whatever, until they gave me back my passport. I would not be going out and doing any tracting.

The passport is the property of the US Government.
Holding the passport and not returning it to the citizen is taken very seriously by the state department.

Asking for help from the nearest consulate is the best course of action. Being prepared by making and keeping a copy of the passport and visas will accelerate the process of replacement.

It is possible a government representative will contact the mission home and demand the original passport. Failure to return the passport can cause legal problems for any US citizen when they return to the US.

Perhaps a civil suit on the MP when he returns home?



As far as air fare etc. You are on your own or if assisted you will get a bill.

Are there countries where the missionary could contact the press about the problem? We know how the TSCC hates bad PR.

What's to stop a missionary from documenting the problems and writing about it, especially if the person was a convert?

Better yet, how about that for a fictional novel? Person converts to mormonism, plays along so he or she can go on a mission to expose the problems? We know the MP handbook advises mission presidents on how to avoid paying taxes and gives them perks that the average member has no knowledge of. Add some present day Danites trying to kill our plucky hero and it might make for a good read.

You can walk off your mission anytime, with or without resigning your membership.

LDS Inc does not owe you a plane ticket. Neither does the State Department. You may be able to pressure LDS Inc into paying your travel home if you quit, but don't count on it. They will probably bill you for the ticket if you can't pay upfront. State Department will bill you for a full fare coach ticket if they provide transportation home.

Bottom line, getting home will likely cost you some money. So? Staying in country costs you money too. Bite the bullet and raise the money to go home, or borrow it and pay it back when you get home. Solving problems like this is an important life skill. Look at it as a chance to practice.

As it is, you are paying for that "free" return ticket from LDS Inc with two years of your life, several hundred dollars per month to the Church, and your integrity.

Consult "The Derz!"

If your MP keeps your passport, you can always go to the closest embassy, tell them it is "lost" and they will issue you a replacement. It is done all the time.

Why would a mashie lie about this?

I tell everybody that I can speak to who is going on a foreign mission to never under any circumstances surrender their passport to the mission president. They have no legal right to confiscate your only legal proof of citizenship.

Please--- If you read this pass it on!!!!!

On my mission we traveled back and forth between France and Switzerland often so I needed my passport with me. So did all the other missionaries in our mission. I would have thought it odd for the MP to have my passport. I also had access to my bank account. This was before the days of equalization and control from LDS, Inc. Boy, just writing this makes me feel suddenly old.

Anyway, when I had my first meeting with the Mission President upon arriving in Switzerland I told him flat out that as the legal guardian of my sister's children, should anything happen to my sister and her husband, I would immediately have to return to the states. He was a great guy and just said, "Would you tell me before you left?" and I acknowledged that I would tell him first and then leave ASAP. He was okay with that and we got along fine.

It seems missionary status has changed quite a bit since those old days. I probably would not have gone on a mission or I would have been very uncomfortable being treated in the way missionaries are treated today. I was an adult, felt like an adult, and acted like an adult who was in charge of my own life.

Any missionary reading this, WAKE-UP! You may catch hell from your parental units when you return home but if you don't want to be on a Mormon mission JUST LEAVE or don't go in the first place. There is a great big beautiful world outside Utah and Mormonism. Give it a look see. Good luck.