He's been friends with my son his entire life. His farewell is next Sunday. He's giving a talk in church followed by an open house at their house. I don't think I can bring myself to go to the talk. Just thinking about it makes me want to puke. But we will be going to the open house.

I really want to take him aside and talk to him before he goes. I would appreciate any advice from people who have actually been on a mission.

Here's a few things I want to tell him:

1. He is there are a volunteer. He's not a slave or an employee.

2. He is an adult and responsible for his own health, safety, nutrition, exercise, and actions.

3. He should keep his passport safe (he's going to Switzerland) and with him at all times, or at least a color photocopy.

4. He should have some fun and enjoy the scenery and culture while he's there.

Anything else?

I mean, besides, THE CHURCH IS A F'N CULT AND HE'S WASTING HIS TIME, ENERGY, MONEY AND TWO YEARS OF HIS LIFE?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2011 03:37AM by Mnemonic.

You need to stay out of someone eles'e business.

He is not your son - how would you react to his TBM parents taking your son to one side for a quiet word behind your back.

IMHO - mind your own business.

You know what, the mission thing is completely up to him. I'm not trying to change his mind. I just want him to come home alive, healthy, and sane.

That's not quite the same as how your post reads.

I think it's exactly how Mnemonic's post read. The misunderstanding may be how YOU read it.

Nothing in the OP's post is about preventing the boy from going on his mission. It's all common sense advice to help a young person who is about to have all personal boundaries invaded by Morg authority figures. They likely will treat him like a slave and compromise his health and well-being by forcing him to live on a pittance that does not allow for healthy food, decent living conditions, or adequate medical care. He *should* retain his identifying documents including his passport.

Most of the posts here that I've seen by those who say they enjoyed (or didn't totally hate) their missions involved enjoying the state or country where they served including the sites, the people, and the culture.

I think the important part is the approach, and I'm sure Mnemonic will handle it with care.

Hmmm,

'I mean, besides, THE CHURCH IS A F'N CULT AND HE'S WASTING HIS TIME, ENERGY, MONEY AND TWO YEARS OF HIS LIFE?'

How does that read to you exactly?

The point I made was that giving her sons friend 'parental' style advice is crossing exactly the same boundary as Church leaders when they talk to kids without consulting parents.

My opinion is still that it isn't the OP's place to do that. Still, if they want to interfere in another families affairs that's up to them...

Its not as if you were talking to a 12 year old about the cult. If you have the courage to do it, I say give the kid all info he will take. I like all the suggestions you made.

I especially like the idea of reminding him he is a volunteer. Volunteers can quit at any time.

jon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmm,
>
> 'I mean, besides, THE CHURCH IS A F'N CULT AND
> HE'S WASTING HIS TIME, ENERGY, MONEY AND TWO YEARS
> OF HIS LIFE?'
>
> How does that read to you exactly?
>
> The point I made was that giving her sons friend
> 'parental' style advice is crossing exactly the
> same boundary as Church leaders when they talk to
> kids without consulting parents.
>
> My opinion is still that it isn't the OP's place
> to do that. Still, if they want to interfere in
> another families affairs that's up to them...

But THAT part of the post wasn't what the OP want to tell the missionary, was it?

Mnemonic, if you served as a missionary (I didn't) what piece of advice would you (even as a TBM) have wanted, but perhaps didn't get?

The young man should have the benefit of Mnemonic's opinion. There may be no other nonmormon adults in his life who would tell him these things and have his attention. He's going into a very authoritarian and coercive system. While he is there his outside contacts will be limited; he will be in a virtual, psychological North Korea if you like. Mnemonic should by all means tell him all those things he or she wants to. It could help him a lot when he thinks later that he might be going crazy. after all, the important adults in his life have all been (or have pretended to be) mormon true believers. How could they be wrong! Here is where it will help him to have been spoken to frankly by someone outside this delusional system of mormonism.

As for staying out of another family's business, that is hardly a moral imperative. It's not as if you were inducing a ten year old to smoke a cigarette. There is no virtue in letting yet another young person get sucked into the religion of their family. I wish someone had done as much for me when I was of high school age or younger.

my brother will be putting in his mission papers soon too. i don't know what to do either. i think me being a happy exmo is all i can do to get him thinking there might be another way.

A brother is a lot different from a friend's son.

Tell your brother about your mission experiences. Let him know that you are there for him. Don't try to dissuade him, just tell him how tough it will be and some of the challenges.

When my sister went on a mission, I tried to do that with her. She brushed me aside, but when she went out, she hated it. She came home early and told me that my advice had stuck with her. She didn't want to hear it when she was enthusiastic for going, but when she was struggling it helped her to now that I knew what she was going through.

My son just went last September, and they are brainwashed before they go, and become completely brainwashed when they are out. All he writes about are investigators and baptisms, as that is all that matters to him now.

Even if you try to talk some logic now, it will get displaced soon enough. Even if it is very tame logic, like enjoy the country, try different foods, make new friends and get to know the culture....

They become spawns of the cult. After all, they want the pick of available young women yearning for a returned missionary, when they get back. And they are mini celebrities of tbm family and their ward back home.

There is a phenomenon present in returned British Missionaries.
No matter where they are sent in the world, no matter what language they learn, they all come back with an American accent - why is that?

The vast majority of missionaries are American and non-American missionaries often pick up the accent. Also, the American culture is very dominant and often appeals to young people,in particular. Your post reminds me of an Australian missionary who, upon his return home, was asked, "You don't have an American accent?" "No", he replied " but there are a few Americans who now have an Australian accent."

I think that I would be very oblique in my discussion. I would probably congratulate him on "volunteering" for church service (he probably won't pick up on it, though.) Then I would tell him that some MP's are good about looking after missionaries' health issues and some not so good. Since he is the one who has to live with the long term consequences, he needs to remember not to let any health issues go. If the MP won't let him get treatment, he should email his parents ASAP.

1) Don't go to the church
2) Go to the party
3) Hand him a $20
4) Give him your business card with your email and tell him to contact you if he needs anything.
5) Wish him well
6) Wish his parents well and thank them for the party.

Your approach is akin to taking him aside at his wedding and tell him how to deal with his bitchy bride. Such advice, even if warranted, would be taken as an insult and everything you said would be lost.

Just be supportive and if he ever gets the desire to email you from his mission, you can give him advice then.

Mormons don't appreciate unsolicited exmo advice any more than we appreciate TBM advice.

I like axledc's advice. I think the best thing for him is to know you're there for him. Writing to him and sending the occasional care package (its an expensive country) would mean a lot to him I'm sure. Maybe you could pass on the details of the US embassy in Bern incase things go wrong? Their web site is:

http://bern.usembassy.gov/

I hope he gets an opportunity to explore and enjoy what is a very beautiful country. Oh and everybody has to carry some form of ID card here so giving up your passport is a bad idea. That advice you can at least pass on.

A few years ago, my friends daughter went on a mission to Argentina. I think reminding him that his health is important and he needs to responsibility for his health is a great thing to do. Then write once a week. That is what I did with my friends daughter. Sometimes a letter, sometimes just a card with short note. Include information about home, I cut pictures and news articles about her highschool. The non preachy, non churchy letters will be so welcome. And you can email, but they have limited time and have to sit read a ton of emails at the time time they are writing their one email home so the actual letters you mail are so much better.

Gee there are alot of haters here.....He was asking for advice, not condemnation. I think he is fine to say what he planned, and that he was not planning on his bottom line, that was meant for us, what he would LIKE to say but won't.

I would have loved someone to pull me aside for something like this, I have another situation that people just let go, and it ended up messing up my life as well as someone elses.

I'd say let him know that you will be there for him if anything comes up, and keep contact also. Would you help him get home? We have to look out for our friends and their kids too. If he was on drugs would you just sit idly by because it's not your kid? or would you let him know you are there for him?

Send him money on a visa or something that he can't give away, I don't know what stores they have there.

Good luck.

I don't think I can be classed as a 'hater' for stating the opinion that i believe the OP is overstepping the boundary and is interfering in someone elses parental arena.
I gave advice which I stand by.

Mnemonic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 2. He is an adult and responsible for his own
> health, safety, nutrition, exercise, and actions.
>
> 3. He should keep his passport safe (he's going
> to Switzerland) and with him at all times, or at
> least a color photocopy.
>
> 4. He should have some fun and enjoy the scenery
> and culture while he's there.
>
> Anything else?
>
I think skip #1 but 2,3,and 4 can be said in front of everyone(so you won't be accused of going behind anyones back) and have a story ready for why. ie; "...A friend of mine from another stake was so caught up in his missionary work that he ignored his symtoms of ______ and he kept puting his health off until it caught up with him, and he had to come home early, and is still having problems..."

"....You need to keep your passport with you because ......"

This will be taken as good advice from a family friend.

Why would the church send him to Switzerland when all missionaries must be out of that country by 2012?

I read on this board they've been reorganising mission boundaries and I guess they could shift him to Germany or France for the remainder of his mission in 2012. Alternatively,it could be because he's going before the changes are implemented, he can stay.

Missionaries getting kicked out of Switzerland? wow this is great news. Any other countries? What's the deal?

I'll google it now anyway.

and shouldn't rock the boat, let me ask this. If this same kid was going to invest $10,000 cash and volunteer two YEARS of his time (worth in the workplace $25,000-$50,000) working for Bernie Madoff investments (now defunct) would you still say, "Just smile and be polite but whatever you do don't warn him that it's a scam." After all his parents are heavily invested with Bernie and they might take offense.

HOLY SHIT! You can really tell what posters still believe that mormonism is benign and not the malignant cancer that it is!

I'm not saying that he shouldn't use some caution and be tactful about what he says, but to say nothing when you know the truth about mormonism borders on criminal. And this doesn't even take into account the mental, social, educational and life problems going on a mission causes.

Once again HOLY SHIT!

Why can only a parent give advice? I think the OP's advice is good. This young man will be gone for 2 years. No other adult is to give him advice the whole 2 years? I think the OP's advice is very good and just common sense he is sharing with a friend of his son. Nothing the OP said is negative in anyway.

And I agree with non for this about sharing advice. I would have loved if someone would have shared this type of advice with my kids that went on missions. My ds went to France,and yes he saw some amazing things,but he also got thrown in jail a few times. And we knew nothing about it until he got home. He was told to never tell us. This kind of advice I don't want shared with my child.

I wouldn't worry about "overstepping bounds." I'm not joking, when I went, I got advice from EVERYONE. Some of it was good, like what you are suggesting, and a lot of it was crap.

He should be reminded to carry his passport around. He should be reminded that he is a volunteer (not an employee). He absolutley should be reminded that he is responsible for his own health. Many people forget to tell missionaries that, and they think they are invincible because they are teenagers who are "bestest buddies" with jesus.

I would actually include to tell him something along the lines that if he ever starts to feel really frustrated with the "work" to focus more on "service."

And again, I wouldn't worry about giving him the advice. Trust me, he's getting some from everyone else.

I never got more bad advice in my life than just before my mission, and mostly from people (mostly women) who had never served missions.

It's amazing how much TBMs who have never served missions think they know about missions. It'd be like telling astronauts what the space shuttle is like because you watched a few launches and landings on TV.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2011 06:35PM by axeldc.

And oddly I still get people to this day that want to tell me about my mission who never went.

I'm not nice with these people any more. The conversations go something like this:

"Raptorjesus, your mission blah blah blah. I have found blah blah blah..."

"Whoah. But you didn't go? You do realize how stupid you sound right now, don't you? I mean you are literally talking about something that you have zero clue about."

It's usually the last time I have to talk to these people.

Make it an ADVENTURE! And yeah, the passport thing is essential.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2011 12:42PM by possiblypagan.

I agree boundaries are at issue here. But this young man really isn't a child, he's an adult. Going on a mission isn't any different than being shipped off to war or getting married. He's a man, an elder... Adults don't need parental permission to speak honestly to other adults. Parents don't have the right to shield their adult son from information from others about what to expect at war or in marriage or on a mission.

The boundary issue may be more pronounced over the fact that you've been invited to their house for a supportive farewell, not to give the other side of the argument. That's where advice that appears critical would be offensive and would not have the intended impact. Because it's an invitation to their home. In that way, it is a family event where unsolicited advice would be a boundary violation. Just as inviting someone to a wedding shower at your house is not an invitation for friends to tell the groom he should have a divorce attorney on retainer just in case...

But the post pretty well says he doesn't intend to say Mormonism is a lie just give advice on surviving it. If done carefully that could be done without violating boundaries.

I think missionaries often sound as if they're absorbed in baptisms and mission work in their letters because they're trying to give the right impression to the people they're writing too. Most missionaries are NO WHERE AS EXCITED about missionary work as those dumb letters would suggest. Most missionaries get depressed but still write home portraying a fantasy world of amazing uplifting spirituality that conceals their feelings of failure and wishing they had the right to care for their own needs.

I think I will give the letter to his parents and let them decide whether or not they will give it to him. If nothing else, it may stimulate a discussion about these matters.

------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Missionary,

A mission is an important time in the life of young LDS men and women. I hope that your mission is an incredible experience filled with good memories. To that end, I would like to give you some advice to help keep you safe, healthy, and happy. A friend of mine had to come home from his mission early because of serious health problems that he developed. He ended up having multiple surgeries and spent months in the hospital. He still suffers from health problems as a result of what happened to him on his mission. DW also had problems after returning home from her mission as a result of physical and mental exhaustion. I invite you to talk to your parents about this letter and get their thoughts and opinions. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide what is best for you and your situation.

I want you to remember that you are there as a volunteer. You are not an employee of the LDS church. In fact, you and your family are paying for the privilege for you to be there. It is a huge commitment of time and money for you to serve a mission. As a volunteer, you need to decide if the amount and type of work that you are being asked to perform is appropriate. You need to let your mission president know if you feel that you are working too hard and take whatever steps are necessary to stay healthy. Stress and overwork can weaken your immune system and leave you vulnerable to getting sick.

On the subject of health, as an adult, you are responsible for your own health, safety, nutrition, exercise, and actions. It is important for you to eat right and exercise (that immune system thing again). Make sure to eat a well balanced diet. You should always evaluate the situations you find yourself in to ensure that you are safe and take appropriate steps to stay safe. If you develop any health problems, don’t hesitate to ask to be seen by a doctor. As an adult, you can be held responsible for any criminal activities you commit whether you knew they were criminal or not. Never carry a package or luggage belonging to someone else. Laws can vary from one country to the next and things that are legal in one place may not be in others. Just be mindful of this fact and don’t take things for granted.

Your passport is a very important document. It proves that you are a citizen of the United States of America and are, therefore, entitled to certain legal rights. I recommend that you keep your passport with you at all times. I would be hesitant to give my passport to anyone for safekeeping. If you do give your passport to your mission president you should at the very least make a color photocopy (before you leave for your mission) of the identification page and keep that with you. You cannot travel between countries without a passport. If an emergency or natural disaster was to occur and you didn’t have your passport you could find yourself in serious trouble.

I want you to understand I’m not saying you should complain to your zone leader or mission president about every little problem you encounter. I’m sure there will be many little problems that you will have to deal with. There are times, however, when it is appropriate and necessary to let them know about problems you may be having. If for some reason, your concerns are ignored or not addressed to your satisfaction, you should let your parents know so that they can help to resolve the problem.

And last, but certainly not least, have some fun and enjoy the scenery, the culture, and the people you meet while you’re there. You may never visit these places again.

Enclosed are two 120-minute AT&T calling cards. I opened them to verify they are still good but they are otherwise unused. I suggest you keep one with you at all times in case of an emergency. Use the other one at your discretion. International rates are higher so you will not get 120 minutes out of them.

Please contact DW or myself or even DS if you need anything or if there is anything we can do to help you while you are away. Our home phone number is ; my cell phone number is ; and my email address is . DW’s cell phone number is and her email address is . DS’s cell phone number is and his email address is .

Stay safe and healthy and have a good mission.

Yours Truly,



Mnemonic

I like your letter. It's positive and supportive. As others have said, this is his decision, he is an adult (or nearly so), and anything other than support, encouragement and friendship is inappropriate, IMO, at such a time.

Although SLDrone suggests it isn't possible to do this, I like the idea of his keeping his passport and providing a color copy to the mission office. If that won't work, he should keep a complete color copy.

Finally, I have been to Switzerland a few times (Geneva and Zurich). It's a delightful place with lovely people, gorgeous scenery, delicious food and some nice local wines -- oops, I guess that last doesn't help! I think he hit the jackpot in terms of where he is going -- even if he ends up in France or Germany (also lovely places with even better wines!). It's unlikely he will suffer illness such as those that plague young people going to Central and South America, for example. However, Switzerland is a very expensive country in which to live. Food is quite pricey. So, I hope his parents will be able to supplement his monthly stipend.

Although many RMs on these boards say their two years were awful (and I believe them -- it would have been for me), given where he is going, it could be all right -- and perhaps even better than all right.

You may want to say something about -- do not get bogged down in guilt about baptisms, chastity chats, etc., That doesn't help anyone.

And, I would emphasize even more that he should relax, enjoy a wonderful country and work hard to become fluent in a language (in this case Swiss German) that could serve him very well his entire life.

Def what others have said about the passport. And a reloadable visa card in case he needs to make a quick escape ;)

My RM DH says his biggest regret was not enjoying himself more. He was in a beautiful country with warm loving people and he was so stressed out about baptism numbers and feeling guilty and unworthy all the time.

Ugh.

The mission office will take his passport the first night he is there, they will hold it for "safe keeping" which includes keeping new elders from bolting. They'll tell him they need his passport in the office so the office elders can keep his visas up to date, which may in part be true.

SOP for Western European missions



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2011 03:57PM by SLDrone.

I kept my own passport my whole mission, and would be pretty leery about giving it to ANYONE. We were supposed to have our passports available in case the authorities wanted to see them, at least back in our apartments.

find out you've been "trying to destroy their son's testimony." My TBM sibs won't even "let" me talk to their adult children about ANYTHING concerning the Cult. At a Thanksgiving family reunion in '09 my youngest TBM brother told me to my face that he didn't want me to be around his kids because he was afraid that I would say something that would "damage their brains". Parents think that their children are their possessions, no matter what the age. I'd like you to still talk to the kid, just so that we can hear about the fallout when you do.
As for the kid and his health and safety... he's going to Switzerland not Uganda. The biggest health threat is getting fat. Don't worry about him converting anybody, it's Europe after all. The Mission is where most young men find out that Mormons are assholes (if they haven't been to BYU, or were raised outside of Utah/Idaho). So, it might be a great education. Besides. learning a language and living in a different culture isn't exactly torture. Let us know what happens!!

some years back and if I, as her mother, had told her these things, she would have been angry.

What I can say is she knows--and always knows--that if she needed me, I would move heaven and earth to help her. For my kids I've learned, I have to wait for them to ASK. I can't offer advice like this.

I'd be very, very careful.