Tristan's explanation of Christian believef the Trinity was flat wrong. That's all. Doesn't matter whether Tristan believes in the Trinity or not...Jesus and God the Father and the Holy Spirit ARE one God. As Jesus said, "I and my father are one." They are not the same person. I can't draw the graph that shows it pictorially, but Christian orthodoxy says The Father is not the son and is not the Holy Spirit. The son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Likewise, the Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son. Yet the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Some say that Jesus didn't claim to be God. He sure did...see John 10:32-33. The New Testament never says the word "Trinity," but the concept appears throughout.
Obviously, Tristan made the original post to stir something up, judging from how engaged Tristan remained in pushing the issue. Mission accomplished.
The point isn't about whether you believe it or not. I could give a $%#*@. That's your business. My point is, you know, Mormons piss and moan about people misrepresenting their beliefs...and anything that's ever "anti" is dismissed if it's ever "misrepresenting" in any way. But Mormons themselves misrepresent the beliefs of Christian orthodoxy all of the time...Just seems ironic to me.
Frankly, Tristan, if you're convinced that Mormonism and Christianity are both bull$hit, why are you so caught up in a polemic against Christian orthodoxy that seems strangely like a defense of Mormonism? And why do some ex-Mos on this forum get so damned insistent that Mormon is Christian, when they no longer identify as either? Why should they care? I don't get it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 08:09PM by stillburned.
A. Tristan, you dont know your subject, and/ or cant effectively communicate B. When someone takes another tack, you fly into a spitting, snarling hissy fit
Jeez.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 09:34PM by serena.
I've also realized this lately. And it actually sounds sort of exactly like the mormon version of how the son, the father and the holy ghost are three persons but one god. Mormons have it very wrong, it's not the trinity aspect that differs between them and most christians, it's pretty much everything else about their concept of god that differs. (eternal progression e.t.c.)
It seems to me that she was saying the historical Jesus may be different than the Christ of faith. If so, I agree with a lot of what she said. However,saying Christians don't believe in Jesus is going a bit far IMO.
It's kind of like Led Zeppelin or the the Miami Heat. You could say that Jimmy Page is Led Zeppelin or LeBron James is the Miami Heat, but they both had excellent backup.
There isn't enough info outside the New Testament to be sure of what Jesus thought anyway.If you reject all of the Gospels you don't have anything other than barebones. Not all Christians take everything that literally and do try to understand Jesus the man.
Yeah,but it is pretty much educated guesswork with the info we have. My view is that he was an apocalyptic who expected God to shortly intervene inhuman affairs.
Interesting. As I said I don't think he was the son of God; but I do believe that a compassionate philosophy of treating your fellow man with compassion was assembled in his name in the form of the New Testament. Unfortunately some of his fans these days do not see it this way. I think of Jesus kind of like Buddha, many of the the ideas ascribed to them are admirable, but the literalists ruin it for everyone.
Yeah, I like his teachings and find it ironic that many right wing believers focus on stuff he didn't comment on and ignore the stuff he did talk about a lot.
I'm not surprised Tristan is throwing a hissy fit. People here are belittling him. He understands the trinity perfectly well as far as I can see, not sure why you're so keen on making out he doesn't. If you wanted to refute what he has to say that's another matter, or even say you're offended as a Christian then I would understand.
However the fact is Christians do not worship a man called Jesus who was thought to be the Jewish Messiah. They worship Jesus Christ, a man-god who can absolve you of your sins no matter what you do. It's not the same thing. This was all Tristan appeared to be saying.
Historically there were many non trinity Christians in the early Church but they were banned as heretics after the council of Nicea in the 4th century.
No doubt I'll be told now that I'm wrong and don't understand. However I know, through many years of study, that I'm right so that's OK. :)
Seems to me that Tristan is pretty much dead on. Christians believe in Christ, a Messiah, a Mahdi who erases their mistakes/sins over a real living breathing person. Oh sure, if pressed most will tell you that they think there may have been a real living breathing person who is the literal son of god, but I've also run into a good number of Christians who think he is pure allegory.
I think he's dead on with his interpretation of the Trinity as well. I have been told by several mainstream Christians, from Roman Catholic to Episcopalian that Jesus is God. From a discussion on my fb page regarding theists anthropomorphizing god, specifically regarding Jesus: God made Himself human so that He can relate to us more profoundly. - From a Roman Catholic.
why? because you're some self appointed expert on Christianity? Is the Roman Catholic wrong? I could give two shits if you believe in Jesus, Krishna or any of the other many man/gods of mythology of which there are many. Christianity simply co-opted one for it's own purpose, largely political and now people all over the world are fighting over who's interpretation is right. DYRTIGAF enough to dig deeper because of your childish need to be right? Hardly.
I think that Christians are very deeply interested in Jesus's humanity. They don't feel that acknowledging the God (Christ) part of the story diminishes the Jesus (human) part of the story.
I think Tristan has been reading Jeff Holland's talk on "Why Mormons are superior to everybody else, especially Christians" (well, that's was the gist of it) from about 5/6 years ago.
It was all about how "We don't believe in the Trinity and all those inferior so-called Christians do - it says so in their creed)
I remember going home afterwards with three TBMs who were preening themselves over this - until I said "but there's lots of Christians who don't believe in the Trinity. they're called Unitarians" Dead silence and then the subject was changed.
I'm not Steve Benson so I won't write a long post, but go Google Athenasian creed, Nicene creed and Apostles'creed.
Basically the Athenasian states 3 persons 1 godhead (Just what you believe, Jeff)
And as to Jesus,[Apostles' Creed] he was conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate was crucified, dead and buried; he descended into Hell. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated on the right hand of the father. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead" Apart from BY's teachings on how JC was cenceived, it's pretty much what the Marments believe.
But then, there are those who believe the noodly appendages are not round but OVAL. He's the flying LINGUINI monster, folks