Ok since we know that freemasons higher up learn to say Lucifer is Jesus brother and pay homage to both. If you read New Testimony say's not to swear against God and Jesus name and forbids this. In temple they swear oaths to Elohim and do cultic slash neck and stomach if they reveal the going on in Temples. Another thing when in court they want your to swear on Bible your telling truth, was this not forbidden?

I've also heard that if you don't leave milk and cookies out for Santa, you won't get anything in your stocking.

Seriously though, I didn't understand any of your post.

It sounds like English is their second language.

Lucifer will trick you into praying to him. Just because Jesus Christ is used in name LDS could be just opposite. Term Elohim mean plural gods or one god. Christ does not mean Jesus Chirst but anointing of oil.

What? Christ means Messiah. Are you thinking of the word Chrism, meaning holy oil? Or Chrismation, meaning anointing with oil?

"Christ" means "the anointed one".

Latter Day Saints do not pray to Lucifer for two reasons:

1. Lucifer (Satan), along with Jesus and Elohim do not exist, and

2. They truly believe they are praying to God (Elohim, if you will) through the intermediary Jesus (In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen)

As Submissionary implied: What in the world are you talking about?

S2

I hope you don't believe that about Freemasons.

Yeah, I'm really not following the OP at all. Don't know about the Masons. Mormons are my pet bizzaro group, as I have family involved in it. I simply do not have time to study JW's, Scientology, et al. Like they say, the Secret Service has always trained its anti-counterfeiting agents by having them closely study the real article. Imitations are then easy to spot.

That said: I've been to lots of Mormon meetings and I think they're an "imitation," if you will. However, I never heard them pray to Lucifer. Met and read lots of Christians who didn't have much use for Mormonism--none of them (that I ever saw) ever accused Mormons of praying to Lucifer (aka, the Devil, Satan, the Deceiver, the Accuser, etc.).

I think that most Christians would take Mormons at their word that the LDS pray to the one true God through Jesus--and don't have a problem with that. The problem they have is what the Mormons teach ABOUT God the Father (exalted man) and Jesus (not really sufficient to go to Heaven--only CK sounds anything like Christian version of Heaven). And no, I'm not looking for a theological debate about the veracity or legitimacy of those views--I'm simply stating those ARE the general views.

OP: Do you think you could re-read your post and see if you can craft it into something that is more clear?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 09:31AM by stillburned.

In related news, how many angels can dance on the head of the pin?

Like what stillburned said, we should take people at their word when it comes to religion. If they say they believe in Jesus, they probably believe in Jesus. If they say they pray to him... well, that's probably what they do.

I think we are dealing with an Evangelical Christian here. According to Mormon mythology, Lucifer was once a brother to all of God's children until he fell and became a son of perdition--meaning divorced from the family of God the Father and all his wives and kids. Once he fell, he lost his bro status. In my own studies of the freemasons(during my own research into the origins of the temple ceremony), nowhere does it say to pay homage to Satan as a bro. Seriously, you gotta fact check these claims by Born Agains just as you gotta fact check the historical claims of the Morg--never take them for face value.

Careful about the broad brush you paint with by saying "Evangelical." I'd say it's someone simply misinformed (most likely), or with some sort of mental health issues.

See what I said earlier about Christians understanding Mormons believe in Jesus, God the Father, et al, and apply it to the vast majority of evangelicals, as well. Perhaps this person heard about the Mormons believing Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers (yes, evangelicals WOULD take exception to that for a number of theological reasons)...and translated it into "do Mormons pray to Lucifer?"

Again, most evangelicals, like most Christians in general, take Mormons at their word about praying to God the Father through Jesus Christ--and don't have a problem with that, as far as it goes. It's WHAT Mormons teach ABOUT God the Father and Jesus Christ that evangelicals--and most informed Christians--take exception with.

Satan tells the truth in the temple flick. Elohim tries to keep the truth from humans.

If Mormonism acts in a Godlike fashion, Satan is definitely their god.

In the temple, Adam is shown praying in the "true order of prayer" and he is answered by Satan.

Yeah and Jesus was led by the Spirit to be tempted by the devil.

Matt.4:1

"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil."

Does that mean Jesus was really a follower of Satan?

ozpoof and caedmon make good points (to me). That's the kind of thing that goes on in the Temple, as seen in the vids (and as many of you attest).

But personally, I don't think that actually has anything to do with some mystical force which is truly tricking/coercing people into praying to Itself. It has to do with creating the cog/dis mindscrew that keeps people easy to control.

That mindscrew-control thing is certainly "evil," in a sense, but it's a far cry from a literal Satan/Lucifer/whatever. I suppose "evil"/enslavement is accomplished, any way, so maybe it's not important whether there's an actual disembodied overlord involved or not.

[Not sure what OP meant?]

And little kids at school are being forced to take the Satanic sacrament.

Kids at school have milk as a cornerstone of their balanced diet. Cows give milk that kids drink. Cows have cloven hooves. What else gives milk and has cloven hooves? A goat. And we all know that goats are the symbol of Satan. Therefore, kids at school are drinking the symbolic body of Satan, making daily sacrifices to him in lunchrooms all around the country. Sometimes a really naughty kid will drink two half-pints in one sitting--sometimes one white milk and another chocolate--the yin and the yang--Jesus and Satan--And I'll be damned if most kids don't like the dark milk over the light milk. What's that say about children?

But it doesn't end there. Who is making these kids drink milk at school . . . The Government.

Who is paying the government to provide these milk cartons? YOU. Americans are paying taxes, or the Devil's Tithing, as I like to call it, to provide little children with the Devil's sacramental drink.

Disgusting, ain't it. We're all involved.

;)

I think that the lesson to take away is that Mormons do not pray to Satan, but somehow believe that prayers can be answered by Satan, and that's downright heresy. Also, Joseph Smith himself, after admitting to a revelation gone wrong, said that "some revelations are of God, and some of Satan." That's pretty ugly for someone who is said to be the guy who ushered in the Last Dispensation.

Another lesson I'll leave you with: Freemasons are not a secret society. Freemasons control little, even if a lot of military officers and politicians are Freemasons. Freemasons do not pray to Satan. They must, however, acknowledge a "higher power" because there is a requirement to believe in something.

Another thing about Masons, is that they don't actively recruit people. If someone wants to join, they have to ask a friend of theirs who is a member. The only real requirement is that someone believes in a higher power, and they do allow Mormons who want to join to be a part of the organization.

Yes, thank you.

Marcion of Sinope (2nd century) and the gnostics afterward believed that Jehovah was NOT the Son of God. I also have come to believe that.

The concept is that Jehovah was a counterfeit, a cruel demiurge who enslaved the people for his own purposes. To me, the Jehovah of the Old Testament of the OT does not seem like the same being as Christ.

Jehovah mandated death for breaking the Sabbath (a man was stoned to death for gathering sticks on the Sabbath). When Christ was rebuked for gathering corn on the Sabbath he stated that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. There are many other examples where Christ's teachings are completely at odds to Jehovah's.

The name "Jesus" means "Jehovah is Salvation." But read the New Testament carefully. You will not find a single instance where the Savior calls himself Jesus. No one who knew him called him Jesus. Only the devils and two men who did not personally know him (a leper and the thief) called him Jesus.

For these reasons (and many others) I do not believe the Savior and Jehovah are the same being. I believe Jehovah is Satan.

Jehovah is an Anglicanized mispelling of the tetragrammon YHWH. We hear it pronounced Yaweh, but no one knows for sure. There's no such person/being/thing as Jehovah.

Satan says that if you don't obey all the promises you make in the temple, you will be under his power. Mormons promise to give everything they have to the church, but in practice, the church does not enforce that. Everyone that does not hand over all their property to the church who has been to the temple and received their secret handshake and password is therefore under Satan's power. You lose. You get nothing. Good day, sir.