This family has been on 60 minutes, Oprah and about everything else. And they are Mormons

http://www.the5browns.com/about-us/

The dad was supposed to enter a plee agreement to child sex charges on Thursday, but ran himself and his wife off a 300 foot cliff in their Porsche last night.

Suicide that didn't work?

Check out the pictures of the car in this news link

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14382034



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 07:54PM by DNA.

What a horrible story. Looks like attempted murder of the wife should be the next thing. What a tragedy for those kids.

I used to see lots of Porsches derailed driving along the highways and canyons of Colorado. Porsches are not a cure-all. They used to be miserable in snow conditions. I don't know if that's changed (I did hear the new ad campaign that extols Porsches in winter driving.)

I feel sorry for his wife and kids. I hope that she recovers.

Who knows what happened, but with no skid marks, just a car shooting off a cliff, it seems suspect on it's own.

Add in a sex crime and probably prison in a few days hanging over his head, and it seems even more strange.

I know that child sex abuse happens all over, but the more sexually restrictive a sub-culture is, the more weirdness it seems to bring out.

If all the sex abuse that really takes place in Mormon culture could be seen all of a sudden, I'm sure there is a lot going on behind closed doors in "model" Mormon families like this one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 08:06PM by DNA.

But then why would he call for help? Changed his mind? Got scared? Weird.

Lillium Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But then why would he call for help? Changed his
> mind? Got scared? Weird.

I wondered about that, and wondered if not being dead, just wet and cold made him think of it as a failed suicide attempt.

Of course it might not have been a suicide attempt at all, but if I had the guts to drive off a cliff, but it didn't work... I might not have the guts to sit in a lot of pain in cold water waiting to die.

People who commit suicide are usually cowards anyway. He should have driven into a bridge support like PorscheGirl did though that was incompetance.

Dieter, how do you know that people who commit suicide are cowards? Please share. I don't pass judgement on any person who takes their own life, as long as they don't murder anybody when they are doing it.

She was not a coward. She was angry, confused, certainly mentally ill, but she was not a coward.

You sir, however, are a total asshole. You come on here and post judgement on all sorts of people. Why don't you crawl back to the Morg or join the Jehovah's Witnesses or some other nasty cult that will pander to your overweening ego and delusional belief that you have a fucking clue about what you're talking about.

Fuck.you.

You cannot expect anyone but yourself to live up to your high standards, you know.

No, people who attempt/commit suicide are usaully mentally and emotinally ill who feel they have no other way out of horrible situations.

People who commit suicide are often suffering from depression or other mental illness. Could you be any more of a jerk?

Generally speaking I consider vulgar language to be the sign of a weak vocabulary. In this case, however, I must say that I think I feel better for it.

This is pure speculation. But after reading more stories of the rescue and suspicious way the car went off the cliff, I think this is a possibility. The mother is probably a witness to the abuse in one form or another. Maybe the kids told her when it happened and she didn't believe it.

To me it's likely he may have been trying to kill or severely disable her in what would appear like an accident so that he's not charged with murder. If he's driving and knows he's going to drive off the cliff, he can brace himself and have more control while she is totally unsuspecting and unprepared. It does look pretty much like he wasn't trying to kill himself...

What a terrible story.

The Five Browns performed with my orchestra several years ago. I thought they seemed like nice people but very weird, especially one of the sons. This is sad.

Funny you should mention that.

See my post below.

The son of the perp was sort of goofy and weird too.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it's extended family.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705366780/Father-of-The-5-Browns-faces-sex-abuse-charges-recovering-from-spectacular-crash.html
....Police have been working on the case for several months, and the resulting charges are part of a plea agreement Brown was expected to plead to on Thursday, according to a source familiar with the investigation. That hearing has now been canceled as he and his wife, Lisa, remain hospitalized after being rescued from their car, which landed in Little Cottonwood Creek, hundreds of feet below the canyon highway.

The probable cause statement filed with the criminal charges includes no details about the victims. The sodomy charge stems from incidents that allegedly occurred between November 1990 and October 1992. One sexual abuse of a child charge has a date range between November 1990 and November 1992 while the other sexual abuse charge includes the time period from March 1997 to March 1998.

Police have refused to release the recording of the 911 call reporting the crash. The Lone Peak Police Department investigated the criminal charges but was not returning media calls Tuesday. The Utah County prosecutor who filed the charges did not return calls, either......



These claims go back to the 90's. The actual case info is sketchy. Lone Peak, I believe is out of American Fork.

About the accident:
My guess is that he was driving too fast in the dark, under a lot of stress and possibly extremely upset, (he was to make an appearance in court the next day) and could not negotiate the turn and went off the cliff.

This is a very sad case for those kids and the mom. I don't know why I am so much more disgusted when a Mormon commits a sex crime.I guess it's because Mormons claim to be better than the vast majority of the population. And that have just as much if not more slime balls than any other group of people.

I may include their mother in that sentiment but am waiting for more facts to come out.

I have issues with making professional performers out of children in the first place.

It seemed to me, especially when I lived in Utah, that parents of talented kids could be almost rabid in wanting to get their super duper child out there and famous in a bid to show the rest of the world how awesome, talented, and especially moral THEIR kids (meaning mormon kids) were.

I saw a lot of kids with very little playtime on their hands, and whose other favorable attributes were discounted unless they served to help 'sell' themselves in the parents eyes.

While I understand that this happens in the non-mo world, there was something very 'holier-than-though/were-doing-it-the RIGHTEOUS-way' about these kids parents that left me feeling queasier than when I read about kids like, say, Lindsay Lohan, who's parents can't hide behind any kind of perceived moral superiority.

I'm sure the facts of this 'accident' will come to light, but if I were to place a bet, I'd say the creepy dad thought a jerk of the steering wheel could make all his problems go away.

Were you being serious, dieter?

My impression has always been that people who commit suicide feel like there is no hope.

I don't see how cowardice comes into play. I think sadness, desperation, depression, stress--maybe.

I do not have a dog in this fight, but I am awfully curious why you would say that about cowardice.

Mr. Brown looks a lot like the father of Elizabeth Sharp (just saying). It is a sad story for everyone concerned.

Yeah, dude looks a lot like Ted Sharp.

Interesting....

There was a church member named Brown some 20-odd years ago charged with sexual offenses in Riverside county, California

Several kids identified his van and then it turned out he also had previous offenses in Utah.

It was the usual Mormon mess, with the SP and members publicly supporting the perp.
He was found guilty, of course.

The whole tbm family seemed a bit odd, wonder if they're related?

Nothing spells loving like running your car off a cliff on Valentine's Day, with your spouse in it.

If he tried to off himself and her in order to avoid prison it was a cowardly act indeed.

Narcissistic jerk.

People like that only think of themselves. And when they suicide they often try to take others with them.

He said he glanced down for a moment [I wonder if it was a cell phone], and when he looked up there was a rock in the road. He swerved to avoid it, the turbo kicked in on his car, and he overcorrected.

If there was a rock in the road, that's something they would be able to verify, and that would back up his story.

I'm sure he was under a lot of stress, and maybe distracted. But if he wanted to die, he wouldn't call 911.

I have heard turbos blamed for a lot, but nothing quite like that. I laughed out loud when I read that. I think Dr. Ferd. Porsche would have too. LOL again.

Hmmm, rock in the road...was there a hat nearby?

Especially considering all the circumstances?

As a former Porsche owner and driver, I am interested in knowing all the facts surrounding this incident.

Incomplete suicides call 911 afterwards, all the time. Have any of you ever worked in a hospital, or manned a suicide hotline? Trust me, they do.

As to the person (Dieter?) who used the word "coward":

I am sure you did not mean to say that, in that way, with that result.

Cowards live their lives always in fear, without joy, and badly. They depress everyone else around them, blame others for their own failures, and are miserable and misery-making, until their very last breath. Cowards hurt others because they can, or because the act of eliciting pain in others, makes them feel less more of something, more powerful, more in control, more numb. Less cowardly.

Suicides often feel that THEY are to blame for the mistakes of others, indeed for all the failures of humankind. They want to fix it all, feel they have an obligation to do so, and when that inevitably turns out to not be even remotely possible, they leave this world under their own steam.

I have lost some very smart, loving, good people, friends I was proud to know, in this way. Let me tell you, it is not cowardly to choose to give up and let go, to say goodbye to people you love, who desperately love you with their whole heart. Sometimes, when everything is just too painful, or when you are sick in your mind or body, and the pain is physical and too, too real, it just isn't.

Calling it cowardly, is the hurt and pain of those left behind talking, I think.

To those who are trying, and survive it, a common theme that runs through their narrative is that they---in their confused, depressed and desperate thoughts---felt it was the bravest, and best thing, they've ever done. They think they are protecting people when they do it, and taking out of the equation of life the one thing which to them seems not able to "work"properly, who keeps everyone else from being able to be happy: them.

To a person who has lost someone, and now has to be brave about that loss and that pain, alone and scared in the world, without their absent friend, maybe never knowing why or how, or who was not able to reach out and help that desperate person who needed them? I can see how it would seem cowardly.

Letting go, on both sides, seems to be the end of everything. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. And there are a few out there who do this to hurt others, or "get back at them" or to run away from problems of their own making. But those are rare, despite what TV and movies tell us.

It is a selfish act. It leaves others alone, or without hope for a time, and that is both wrong and hurtful, and very, very sad. I say yes, to that.

But to call suicide a cowardly act? I don't agree with that, AT ALL.

This is how this will play out in Mormondom:

"Did you hear the Brown's were in a serious car accident, but will recover. I am so glad they were wearing their garments." Heavenly Father was watching out for them!"

The truth is, The Morg wants their money and will overlook and closet anything that will threaten the flow if it. In my opinion, anyone who would sexually assault an innocent child is a low-life scum who deserves to be locked up. Was this a Primary incident? Ick.

So, what do we learn from this? Never, EVER try to commit suicide in a Porche. Always use something akin to a 1972 Ford Pinto.

Just sayin'...

Ron

ExMormonRon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, what do we learn from this? Never, EVER try
> to commit suicide in a Porche. Always use
> something akin to a 1972 Ford Pinto.
>
> Just sayin'...
>
> Ron

You'd think that 300 feet off a cliff would do it. Some people just have bad luck.

Perhaps God was protecting him... Because he wanted the bastard to pay for his crimes!

Assuming you could get a Pinto to start, and run long enough to get to the cliff.

I read every comment in this thread before checking out the KSL link.

Then I had an "oh! _Those_ Browns" moment.


Speechless [and you thought that was impossible :)]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 12:19PM by 3X.

The dad does have that Mr. Smart look (Elizabeth's father) - not saying that Mr. Smart is a pedophile, but it's eerie. What's more eerie, a lot more, is the look on the faces of the rest of the family. Stunned, vapid, certainly not happy. They are keeping sweet, but not doing a very good job of it. It makes my heart hurt to see them. I see that look all to often on Mormon faces. It's so far from normal!