Serious question - are Mormons really Christian? Standard answer is that it is clearly stated in the name of the organization. To which I respond that "Country Time Lemonade" has lemon in the name, but there is no lemon juice in the can.

I ask this again, having sat through F&T yesterday. Less than one in five mentioned JC. Standard "church is true, JS a prophet, TSM a prophet, etc." Rarely was anything said of JC. I don't think Mormons really think that way.

They think they are and that may be the key factor. To us, it seems like Jesus is just their spokesmodel - put out in front of the members to make the company look good, but playing no real role in the corporation.

We can't judge if individual members are Christians - some may be, too many aren't at all.

Finally, the Christian religions profess a certain set of specific beliefs. While the different sects disagree on the particulars of their worship, certain basic beliefs are standard. Mormonism doesn't claim many of those beliefs, such as the standard view of their Godhead. So I'd say by strictly technical terms, if Mormonism doesn't claim the defining beliefs of Christianity, it can't claim to be Christian. Exhibit A proof: The best Baptist minister or kindest Catholic priest can't get a temple recommend because in order to qualify as Mormon, you need to follow specific beliefs (like tithing). So if the shoe is on the other foot and Mormons don't follow specific beliefs of Christianity, then they don't qualify as Christians.

My answer is at http://packham.n4m.org/lds-xian.htm

Short answer: it all depends on how you define "Christian"

And in answering the question one should be cautious and not commit the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

Are Christian even Christian?

According to some Evangelicals, Mormons aren't true Christians. According to some Mormons, Evangelicals aren't true Christians. If you want to exclude non-Christians from having a say in what the definition is, then you have to make an assumption as to who is and who isn't Christian to begin with, which is an obvious logical fallacy.

To make the question fair you have to use a completely neutral and objective definition of the word "Christian." From what I can tell, the best impartial definition must be "a follower of a person named Christ." Technically it doesn't even have to be the same Christ. If my friend's name was Christ and he started a church and I started following him, technically I would be a Christian. The simple question "am I Christian" doesn't provide enough detail to say otherwise.

So yes, Mormons are most definitely Christian. Do they believe in Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost, and God the Father as a single being without parts or passions who saves us by grace alone? No. But they don't believe in unicorns either.

I love the irony of this situation so much

you have Christians stomping their feet insisting that Mormons are not Christians

and you have Mormons insisting that they do, in fact, believe in Christ and so they are, in fact, Christians

and yet...

you have the SLC Mormons stomping their feet insisting that fundamentalist Mormons are not Mormons

and you have the fundies insisting that they do, in fact, believe in the Book of Mormon and so they are, in fact, Mormons

TSCC wants to have it both ways

ETA: I don't care either way - I just think it's funny!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 02:26PM by grubbygert.

This is a point I like to bring up because it gives me the opportunity to share church history (my heritage) about how Nauvoo and Utah weren't so different than the fundamentalists are today. Unfortunately, they don't talk to me much anymore....

Yep! Making the argument that Mormons can be Christian on this board is fun. It is always a good debate. Making the same argument with Mormons about FLDS is not a good debate, it is just absolutely hilarious!

Yes, fundies are Mormon. :)

When I was mormon I was definitely christian, as in: I believed that there was a god named Jesus who saved me by expiating my sins and overcoming death through the crucifixion and resurrection.

I think it's silly for christians to say mormons are not christians simply because they believe things about jesus that the bible is silent on...

"Are Mormons Christian?" One might well ask.

More philosophically, just who exactly is Christian these days? The Christians I know and associate with largely are not. For instance, they want to kill Muslims and people who practice abortion. I would submit that wanting to kill anyone or anything is foreign to original Christianity. I'd be killed if I told them that--they have guns.

I do love your Country Time Lemonade metaphor.

Wow. You must live in an interesting place. I know many Christians who think Muslims and abortion proponents are mistaken...completely within their rights, I might add, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. I never met any that want 'em dead.

Yes. Mormons believe in much of the same anti-scientific bullshit fairy tales as other Christians faiths, so it's only fair to insult them with that label too.

Christians are to Jews as Mormons are to Christians.

Mormons are a type of Christian... I call them "Joseph Christians" they believe in a Jesus as defined by Joseph Smith.

Mormons have a new book and a new prophet the define what they believe and no other Christian sect accepts their prophet or book.

CHRISTIAN = MONOTHEISTIC
MORMON = POYTHEISTIC

SO NO, THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN

*POLYTHEISTIC

SRY

So-called christians are just as polytheistic as mormons until you call them out and they hide behind the emperor's new clothes called "the trinity."

When push comes to shove any given christian will admit they believe jesus and god are separate except when they're not.

You beat me to this.

Christians are not monotheistic. They believe in three gods and a bunch of lesser spirits and demons (saints, angels, demons, devils, etc.)

Nice try.

To often people get Christian and christian confused, thinking that if you aren't a christian person you cannot be a Christian. To clarify one is an adjective and it describes, the other is a noun and it identifies.

Professing belief has always been the number one qualifier in who can be identified as Christian. Mormonism and Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the son of god and sacrificed himself to save them. However, Mormonism and Mormons have proven to be less than christian in their dogma and action.

To recap Mormonism is Christian just not christian, but they don't stand alone in this state. The same could be said about plenty of people and denominations.

Hold on a second. I remember giving almost the exact same argument you are now and you telling me that I was naive for not considering the entirety of Christian history when attempting to define the term.

It is odd how we define the term almost exactly the same now.

If I did that I'm sorry. I find that now that I am no longer Mormon my knowledge and beliefs are no longer static. I fully expect to change again, because I expect to gain further knowledge and experience.

Just stay away from the further light and knowledge. :)

Sorry to go all grammar corps on you, but "a christian" is a noun and "a Christian" is also a noun. Any word that can take an indefinite article is a noun. :)

That's funny. I was talking with DW as we were laying in bed last night about this very topic.

I completely agree with what Richard Packham says on his page (see the link above for a very well worded essay on the topic) and in fact, I made many of the same arguments he puts forth.

I also think that it comes off as arrogant when one group of Christians tells another group of Christians that they (the second group) are not actually Christians. It nears to what Yosemite Sam might call "fightin' words."

A tired and well-worn subject, but what the hell...here's my two cents.

I'd never say a person is or isn't a Christian. I know Mormons that I believe, in my own heart, are Christians...not just nice, moral people...but Christians in the sense of what they seem to believe ABOUT Jesus Christ.

That said, no, the LDS Church is NOT Christian. It denies all the historical doctrines of the faith. And before you give me that bullcrap about who the heck am I to judge whether or not one group is Christian, go look at the damned "First Vision"...you know, the part about all other churches being wrong and their creeds and "abomination"....and the whole "one true and living church" routine... and you'll see I'm just giving Mormonism the same courtesy it gives all the rest of Christianity.

My opinion. Anyone don't like it, well, f--- 'em and feed 'em hot dogs, I say.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 04:06PM by stillburned.

When I was Mormon I was Christian. It didn't matter that I did not hold to a certain set of arbitrary and man-made qualifications that a very small portion of other Christians use to define Christianity. The atonement was important to me on a daily basis. I read Jesus' words and thought about his example constantly.

Really, when it comes down to it, what certain Christians might say qualify as Christian is irrelevant. They are neither God nor are they spokespeople for Christianity in general. In this case, the simplest answer is the only answer that makes sense:

If you believe that Jesus Christ is your savior, you are a Christian.

Exactly. Well said and I would only add that as a group I would consider TSCC as NEO Christians.

I think that could be a good term. Mormonism looks more like modern American Christians than almost any other kind of Christian in history.