Will the only true church dissolve gradually with its final hour that of a single young man teaching himself in a mirror on some future Sabbath morning?

Or will mobs of angry former saints be seen attacking the Headquarters, pulling out sacred documents and Journals from the archives?

Will swarms of attorneys descend like sea gulls upon the offices of church property to extract whatever may be left of the widow's mite?

How will the only true church end? Can you offer your insight?

Will the Internet and freshly authentic investigatory reporters feed the many who yearn to know the truth?

Will it collapse like an old building whose timbers simply have had enough, already...or perhaps will Jesus Christ return in the nick of time to forgive all the lies, sins, unkindnesses and hypocrisies of that noble snake, trained so well by Joseph that its lies went undetected for over a century?

How WILL the only true church fall?
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At some point in time I think the church will send out the message that "It's alright to be a NOM (New-order Mormon)".

I think it may try to live in both worlds: Satisfy the older Mormons -- without losing the newer generation.

Mormonism must eventually change if it wants to survive. The trick is getting there without dying from shock in the process.

It has already fallen. TSCC claims 14 million members. There are approximately 9 million former Mormons who no longer actively participate in the faith. Only 4-5 million Mormon participate actively in the faith. And who really knows what fraction of them actually believe it anymore.

TSCC has a very poor track record of retaining new converts. Even the most optimistic missionary retention rates are just 10-25% of new converts. This despite of having an 80,000 recruitment army, every-member-a-mission, and millions and millions spent on PR. Real growth in TSCC is confined to members having large families and recruiting new people with limited education and internet access.

TSCC is falling slowly over time. The only question is what will accelerate it.

I think it's already accelerating rapidly. I learned the truth just last year. Since then doubt has been discussed in multiple conference talks, there are frequent discussion in SS/EQ about what's really "doctrine" and about family members leaving, my TBM family members have seen probably a dozen articles about people leaving the church, etc... I haven't sent them anything. They've run into things on their own through newspapers, Facebook, etc...

Mormons often talk about what a small world it is...how interconnected everyone is within the church. Well, word is getting out, and it's spreading rapidly throughout the entire membership. Many won't be affected, at least not at first, but those with integrity are waking up at an accelerating pace.

As long as human beings have a need to believe in something out there that makes it all right, there'll be a church. It may morph into something different than it is today. For a lot of people, maybe even most people, the idea of being out on their own in a predatory world that doesn't give a dam whether the eat or are eaten on any given day is just too scary. There MUST be something that watches over us cares. There just HAS to be.

The one good thing I've encountered about religion in general is there are people who are struggling addicts who cannot function in society unless they have the church crutch to hang on to. For those people believing in bullsh*t is far better than going down the toilet.

I agree with your first line.

Do you mean "addicts" literally or are you saying anyone who has social problems who can't function in society without protection from a church. I think plenty of church goers are perfectly well-adjusted socially. I also think plenty of non-church affiliated people are socially inept. And I also believe the reverse.

I don't think attending or not attending church is indicative of social mal-adjustment. I just think it indicates whether or not someone can believe in something for which they have no evidence.

It'll be a slow death over many years. The money wells will start to run dry and the buildings will fall into decrepitude. The younger members will leave out of boredom but the old will faithfully sit in the pews. It'll be similar to the Episcopal church hahahaha

The church I grew up with no longer exists and is dead.

Correlation killed it. Corporate hierarchy killed it. Demands for obedience killed it.

The corporation, however, will live on. They have just stolen too much money to disappear. Corporations always find a way to continue on. Especially when you have billions in the bank.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2014 01:05PM by 8thgeneration.

Yup, This.

The mormonism (doctrine and activities) of my youth are long gone. I still have some diehard TBM relatives, but there are a lot of others who have left or have lightened up about it.

And maybe I may be guilty of not appreciating the perspectives between now and then.... but nowadays it seems the 'elect' have left the building.

Dream on. It will not collapse. It will atrophy.

I will gladly be in line to dance on the grave of tscc. Money just has a great ability to linger on for a long time.

As you know. You can buy anything in this world with money. Even longevity. :-)

they will change. Radical change like the Manifesto created in the late 1800s and something compatible with the surrounding society' s higher or highest values will ultimately remain.

During the civil war, for instance, something incompatible with the highest beliefs or values of surrounding society became a political force. No slave owner or plantation was allowed to chain their workers or buy them, auction them, own them ever again - because- it became incompatible, something treated with contempt by the rest of society.

Cult measures of coerced sacrifice or controls which when known to the greater surrounding society as not being for the higher good may need changing. Modifying.

& the morning after the fur flies when things die down

mormonism will be changed again like after the manifesto in the late 1880s.

I suggest some counseling groups.

No unhallowed hand.... ;)

Fall? It won't. It has something north of $50b in assets and is bringing a shit ton of real estate developments online for investment income. The corporation will do just fine even if tithing were eliminated.

The doctrine is constantly falling away. Mormonism sheds belief like snakeskin, crawling out of its own husk periodically as new strategies flesh out.

The mob that operates Mormonism will protect itself from money losses by developing more and more income producing property.

Core members have seen a lot of doctrinal change and they'll see a lot more. People who can erase their memories at will are the ones who will stay with the church longest.

I love everyone talking about how much money the church has. The church is broke. It takes every penny that is being brought in to maintain the lifestyle of the top echelon and to keep the facade of wealth the church maintains.

From cleaning the toilets to setting appointments to go to the temple, to the tithing push that happened last year, every single action the church takes shows how broke it is.

Ha Ha, they're broke alright. In fact they're downright bankrupt.

Morally.

Follow the money. Broke corporations don't have the ability to engage in capital investment and development schemes of tens of billions $ just that we know about the past few years. We have only hints of how many wholly owned subsidiaries, partner ventures, securities, shells and the likes they've spun. Broke companies can't build malls, luxury residential housing, buy vast ranches, it goes on and on. All that church infrastructure is just so much collateral for them to leverage.

Every member a janitor? Nickel and diming every required church manual? Sure, they have not the slightest shame. None. They command the widow to give her last mite with not so much as a thank you. The beauty of the " a religion that doesn't require all things doesn't have the power to save" is sheer genius.

Broke or just greedy?

IMHO the Mormoney cult will fall in disgrace the same way it came into existence-----with lies and deceit and cunning. Those in the cult who are basking in the money and limelight have shown NO desire to do take the high road: the low road is the road they seem to delight in and keep on traveling.

They have belittled the importance of truth since their founder started his, and now their, Con-Game, hiding and spinning and twisting in all kinds of ugly contortions to conceal the true facts.

With the coming of the Internet, their lying game had to change or to stop.

Stopping did not seem and does not seem to be an option.

I don't see it will disappear but I hope it will be hit hard. What I'm hoping for is that

1 - Young people continue to lose interest to stay and leave a faster rate.

Here in Southern Ontario, Canada, most of those in youth programs over the last 20 years have gone inactive and because they remained friends there is a large population of inactives that just befriend those who leave for whatever reason. Most, if not all, of the former leader's children have been gone for years.

2 - That the 'brethern in SLC' continue to spend money like there is no tomorrow and eventually fall like other large greedy corporations, with nobody to bail them out. That would be awesome.

Bonus - a bonus would be that with all the pressure to come clean about their history, more of the older generation, the current solid families in the stakes, start the leave too.

Extra Bonus- That governments like UK, Canada and New Zealand begin to question the 'charity' the lds church provides and they are forced to spend lots of money trying to clean up their act and image to keep charity status in those countries.

All these would see the resources in people and money hit hard and the church would be 'forced to humble itself' and lose a lot of ground.

Just make sure you have a temple recommend ready. When He returns he would most likely see people in the temples, all of them at once. So if you have no recommend, you are screwed.

how the church falls.

Not a bang but a whimper.

"Or will mobs of angry former saints be seen attacking the Headquarters, pulling out sacred documents and Journals from the archives?" - OH would I pay to see that..... talk about a fabulous fantasy!!!!

The church is gradually eroding but will the erosion will pick up if it will fall. As people find the truth they quit attending and quit their church assignments ---- guess who fills the open positions ----- the remaining brainwashed. Eventually, if we have more and more leaving --- the many brainwashed will wake up to the fact that someone has to do the church work that is left to do. The impact of realizing people are leaving and leaving them more work to do will be the church's Achilles heal and the TBMs will eventually say enough is enough! I also expect to see some criminal actions or attempts at the GAs or their extended families who cannot afford protection ------- these people are all considered part of the SCAM/significantly involved to defraud people out of their hard earned tithing money and in many cases more importantly their time. How much would it cost to have someone do a drive by shooting of homes or cars, etc. of GAs/extended families houses/businesses ----- less than our use to be tithing payments. I am not to the point of causing problems yet but their of thousands each year that learn the truth that they were scammed and they may not have as much control of their emotions as many of us.

It will fall the same way that Roman Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, Eastern Orthodoxy, Buddhism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Judaism, and Baha'i all fell once their members saw the light.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2014 08:37PM by archytas.

It won't fall, it will only evolve. Too much money, too much to lose, too many old school believers. Even when the WWII generation dies off, they leave a very strong system of peer pressure.

What I see more likely is that they will continue to lose many like us....those who see the truth and are unwilling to maintain appearances. I think the younger kids will also become increasingly unwilling to buy into the BS. They are just too prone to find the truth that is at their fingertips. They won't serve missions in the numbers known today. They won't support the a-holes who want to demonize gays. On and on.....

In the end, it weeds out the reasonable thinkers and leaves only those who are prone to outrageous cultism. Think Rajsneesh, Scientology, Koresh, etc. My guess is that in 100 years, there will be a "new" old guard who will continue to support the cult, pay tithing, etc. I think the difference will be that they will seem much more like Jim Jones cool-aid drinkers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2014 09:01PM by GetTheLedZepOut.

not with a bang, but a whimper

- T. S Eliot

Not with a bang or a whimper, but with the last orgiastic grunt of a piglike creature that was once a man.

My fantasy has been that it will be like the fall of the former Soviet Union or like the Berlin wall…people just rise up against TSCC and everything changes over night. A quiet well-spring of dissent reaches critical mass and suddenly there is a huge change.

I doubt this will happen but, I can dream.

My guess is it will be with a whimper, rather than a bang. I feel the same way about the fall of religion in general. More and more people will simply stop believing, until what is left is a shadow of its former glory, and then that too, shall fade away.

Of course, as the church's business arm eventually becomes the more and more dominant arm of the church (it already is dominant, but with seven billion a year in tithes, there is still a lot of loot to be made from the churching business) membership will eventually fade to a point where it is more of a burden to the corporation, then a boon. Once Mormonism drops into the hundreds of thousands of active members, watch for the real fun to begin, as entire sectors are abandoned.