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Posted by: ftw ( )
Date: February 18, 2014 01:06PM

well my dw is going to get a temple recommend. It's very frustrating. I tried my best to get her to learn about the church but it's getting nowhere.

Sucks. Very discouraging.... I really love my wife, it sucks. And it's tough. I am frustrated with the church's lies and authoritarian system that takes away people's agency, but I also need to accept that other people, including my wife, can make choices I completely disagree with. Otherwise I'm not really any better than the church...

Anyways, I know lots of you go through this. Just venting... And worrying...

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Posted by: Richard G. Spot ( )
Date: February 18, 2014 01:09PM

Show her this:


http://www.exmormon.org/journey/journey_g.htm

1) Masonic Preparation Room
The candidate is ushered into the preparation room where he meets the Junior Deacon and Stewards who divest him of all his clothing except his shirt. He is then handed an old pair of drawers, which he puts on.

Mormon Dressing Room
The initiate is divested of all his clothing, and then directed to the washing and anointing dressing rooms where he eventually puts on a special pair of under garments.


2) Masonic Compass
The candidate then enters, the Senior Deacon at the same time pressing his naked left breast with the point of the compass.

Mormon Compass
The point of the compass is sewn into the left [breast] of the garment.

3) Masonic Square
As the candidate enters, the angle of the square is pressed hard against his naked right breast.

Mormon Square
The square is sewn into the right side of the garment.

4) Masons Washing Ceremony
Master orders the basin of the perfumed water and a clean napkin to be brought to him, and directs candidate to wash his hands, which he does...Master takes a box of perfumed ointment and anoints candidate on his head, eyes, mouth, heart, the tip of his right ear, hand, foot, and says - "You are now, my dear brother, received a member of our society."

Mormon Washing Ceremony
The initiate is washed, and various organs of his body (head, lips, breast, ears, hand and feet, etc.) are anointed with holy consecrated oil.

5) Masons Presenting New Name To Candidate
"I also present you with a new name; it is CAUTION"

Mormon Temple Worker Presents New Name To Candidate
" I give you a new name which you should always remember, and which you must keep sacred, and never reveal ... The name is ____."

6) Man Representing Adam In Masonic Ceremony
Thrice Puissant Grand Master, representing Father Adam, is stationed in the east. (This occurs in the Knight of the Sun Degree.)

Man Representing Adam In Mormon Ceremony
Elohim -- (Turning to the audience) - "This man who is now being operated upon is Michael who helped form the world. When he awakes ... he will be known as Adam"

7) Man Representing Deity In Masonic Ceremony
One of the members now personates the Deity, behind the bush, and calls out "Moses! Moses!" (This occurs in the Royal Arch Degree.)


Man Representing God In Mormon Ceremony
A temple worker dressed in white clothing, representing Elohim, comes from behind the curtain.

8) Masons Use A Mallet
He gives a rap with the common gavel or mallet.

Mormons Use A Mallet
One of the temple workers, ... gives three raps with a mallet.

Masonic entered apprentice vs. First token of the Aaronic Priesthood

9) Masonic Penalty Sign
Made from the due-guard by dropping the left hand carelessly; at the same time raise the right arm and draw the hand, still open, across the throat, thumb next [to] the throat, and drop the hand perpendicular by the side.

Mormon Penalty Sign
"The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side."

10) Masonic Grip
The right hands are joined together as in shaking hands and each sticks his thumb nail into the third joint or upper end of the fore finger.

Mormon Grip
The token is giving by clasping the right hands and placing the joint of the thumb directly over the first knuckle of the hand.

11) Masonic Wording Concerning The Grip
The Master and candidate holding each other by the grip, as before described, the Master says.
"What is this?"
Ans. "A grip."
"A grip of what?"
Ans. "The grip of an Entered Apprentice Mason."
"Has it a name?"
Ans. "It has."
"Will you give it to me?"
Ans. "I did not so receive it, neither can I so impart it."

Mormon Wording Concerning The Grip
Peter - "What is that?"
Adam - "The second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood."
Peter - "Has it a name?"
Adam - "It has."
Peter - "Will you give it to me?"
Adam - "I can not, I have not yet received it.

12) Masonic Oath
"... binding myself under no less penalty than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the roots ..."

Mormon Oath
"We and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any secrets of this... Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots."

Masonic fellow craft vs. Second token of the Aaronic Priesthood

13) Masonic Oath
"...binding myself under no less penalty than to have my left breast torn open and my heart and vitals taken from thence and thrown over my left shoulder."

Mormon Oath
"We and each of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal the secrets of this ... Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies "

14) Masonic Penalty Sign
"The sign is given by drawing your right hand flat, with the palm of it next to your breast from the left to the right side with some quickness, and dropping it down by your side"

Mormon Penalty Sign
"This is the sign. The Execution of the Penalty is represented by drawing the thumb quickly across the body and dropping the hands to the side."

15) Masonic Grip
"Take each other's hands as in ordinary hand-shaking and press the top of your thumb hard against the space between the first and second knuckles of the right hand."

Mormon Grip
"This token is given by clasping the right hand and placing the joint of the thumb between the first and second knuckles of the hand."

16) Masonic Name Given
"Brother, I now present you with my right hand, in token of brotherly love and confidence, and with it the pass-grip and word of a Fellow Craft Mason .... the name of it is Shibboleth."

Mormon Name Given
"The Name of this token is your own first given name."

Masonic Master Mason vs. First and second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood

17) Masonic Sign
"The sign is given by raising both hands and arms to the elbows, perpendicular, one each side of the head, the elbows forming a square."

Mormon Sign
"The sign is made by raising both hands high above the head."

18) Masonic Penalty Sign
"The Penal Sign is given by putting the right hand to the left side of the bowels, the hand open, with the thumb next to the belly, and drawing it across the belly, and letting it fall; this is done tolerably quick."

Mormon Penalty Sign
"The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the right hand on the left breast, drawing the hand quickly across the body, and dropping the hands to the sides."

19) Masonic Oath
"binding myself under no less penalty than to have my body severed in two in the midst..."

Mormon Oath
"We and each one of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this... Should we do so, we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."

20) Masonic Grip
Grasp each other's right hands very firmly, the spaces between the thumb and first finger being in interlocked and the tops of the fingers being pressed hard against each other's wrist where it joins the hand, the fingers of each being somewhat spread.

Mormon Grip (Slightly Different Method of Grip)
The Grip is made by grasping the hand, the forefinger on center of the wrist and little fingers locked.

21) Masonic Grand Hailing Sign And Due Guard
The sign is given by raising both hands and arms to the elbows, perpendicularly, one on each side of the head, the elbows forming a square.
The due guard is made by holding both hands in front, palms down.


Mormon Pay, Lay, Ale
The sign is made by elevating both the arms above the head ... the arms dropped to the square,... and then to the sides.

22) Masonic Apron
While the Wardens are examining the candidate, the Master returns to the east and gets an apron, and as he returns to the candidate... The Master then says to the candidate, "Brother, I now have the honor to present you with a lamb-skin or white apron..."

Mormon Apron
Adam-- (Turning to the audience)--"Brethren and sisters, put on your apron."

Masonic raising of Hiram Abiff vs. Mormon Veil

23) Masonic Five-Points of Fellowship as Hiram Abiff's Dead Body is Raised
He (the candidate) is raised on what is called the five points of fellowship, which are foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back and mouth to ear.

Mormon Five-Points of Fellowship at The Veil
"The five points of fellowship are "inside of right foot by the side of right foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back, and mouth to ear."

24) Master Mason Raising Candidate
The Master, in raising him, is assisted by some of the brethren, who take hold of the candidate by the arms and shoulders; as soon as he is raised to his feet, they step back, and the Master whispers the word "Mah-Hah-Bone," in his ear, and causes the candidate to repeat it, telling him that he must never give it in any manner other than that in which he receives it. He is told that Mah-Hah-Bone signifies marrow in the bone. They then separate.

Mormon Passing Through The Veil
At the five points of fellowship ... one putting his mouth to the other's ear, in which position The Lord whispers: "This is the name of the token: Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and in the sinews, power in the priesthood be upon me and upon my posterity through all generations of time and throughout all eternity." The patron repeats the token and then they separate...

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Posted by: notnewatthisanymore ( )
Date: February 18, 2014 01:13PM

I had a friend do this, tried giving warning without sounding anti. I said "come to me if you need to talk." Sure enough, there were problems that other people didn't understand, couldn't find validation from any faithful members, so the exmo friend got to do emotional cleanup after the temple. I would recommend to be supportive, cautionary, and mention that you are willing to talk about anything with her without judging afterwards, because it is often emotionally challenging the first time.

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Posted by: roya1b100d ( )
Date: February 18, 2014 01:19PM

I left the church before i had the wonderful and spirtual chance to go through the temple ;) But just reading all that really creeps me out. Do they really do all that crap in the temple?

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Posted by: stbleaving ( )
Date: February 18, 2014 03:01PM

roya1b100d Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I left the church before i had the wonderful and
> spirtual chance to go through the temple ;) But
> just reading all that really creeps me out. Do
> they really do all that crap in the temple?

Yup. They do.

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Posted by: glad2see ( )
Date: February 18, 2014 02:58PM

will she listen to a video by bishop earl erskine about the many changes in first vision and the book of Mormon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxhT0S04AJ8
17 Minutes of Truth
Ex-Mormon Files

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Posted by: lily ( )
Date: February 18, 2014 03:28PM

Has she been through before, or will she be taking out her endowment for the first time?

If that's the case, it might be the fastest way out of the church for her, TBH.

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Posted by: Theloner ( )
Date: February 19, 2014 10:51PM

I never did go through the temple, they really say those penalty oaths? I cAnt believe that so many people I know went through that and don't find it kind of scary that they make such strange violent oaths just to prevent people from knowing what goes on in there...

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Posted by: newnameabigail ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 04:41AM

They used to do those penalties but however they were taken out some when back in the 90's. Maybe GAWD decided they are no longer necessary.

When I was TBM we usually spend 5 days twice a year at the House of da Lard - I always felt uncomfortable and creeped out but used to do what was exprcted. that means also doing at least 3 sessions a day plus sealing and washings. It gets more and more weird the often you went through that crap. I always had nightmares - dreaming of endowments and bad breath for about a week thereafter.
I was really exhausted always. The same they did with their youth for proxybaptisms. They covered it up as cool be away from home and with your friends stake activity and let them do hundreds of baptisms a day.

ugly ugly cult. effective brainwashing method.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2014 04:44AM by newnameabigail.

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Posted by: lifegoeson ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 12:51AM

After much talking with my DH, I went to the temple by myself to receive my endowments in July and was out of the church by January. Just know that the temple is freaky weird. The thing that got me was how my name tag had my maiden name. My marriage of almost 30 years meant nothing because my DH was not a member and we had not been sealed...this was the nail in the coffin for me, hope it will be for her too.

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Posted by: lily ( )
Date: February 21, 2014 12:50AM

Are you kidding?! You are legally married and they won't recognize it?!

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Posted by: lifegoeson ( )
Date: February 21, 2014 12:58AM

My name tag had my first name, my last name and my maiden name. And they called me by my maiden name.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 06:04AM

RG Spot:

for 'believing Mormons' I don't think the temple masonic sims mean anything; for some, it's a bit more of a coincidence, Perhaps an indication of a common origin.

the day-to-day authoritarian / paternal nature, practices & policies of Mormonism, OTOH, are obnoxious by their micro-managing nature to some, but for people who thrive in the Highly - Structured aspects...Not much can be done b/c it's easy to be ambiguous about church history, Lies, etc.

Once someone compares the Pharisees (micro-managers) to modern LDS... that's something 'Christians' can understand.

Are Mormon TBMs Christians? Nope, not at all.

amen.

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 07:47AM

You expect your wife to respect the fact that your views about the Church have changed, so respect the fact that hers haven't.

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Posted by: breedumyung ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 08:53AM

Hang in there, ftw.

Going to a Toga Party with no booze just might creep her out.


BTW, I'm thinking your moniker is the reverse of: WTF

Cool

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Posted by: Becca ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 09:53AM

That must be so hard!

You are right though, she can make choices that you don't agree with. You are also making choices that she doesn't agree with. It must be just as hard for her.

You are welcome to come here and vent.
Good luck!. Keep on loving eachother and hopefully you'll find your way through all this.

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Posted by: Recovered Molly Mo ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 10:00AM

Wait, is this her first trip to take out her personal endowments?

BE patient and kind. Seriously, this is generally the wake up call about the inner workings of the cultish rituals.

If you are no soft and in touch with her feelings (do not make this about you!) she may put up walls to convince herself what a holy experience it was, you are missing out, etc.

DO not go into glee if she expresses doubts. Going to the Temple IS a mind F**K. Be there for her when she comes to you. Be the soft place to fall.

RMM

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Posted by: kat2254 ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 09:48PM

I feel you. I'm in the same boat with my husband. If this is her first time through maybe you'll be in luck if it makes her uncomfortable. Unfortunately my husband went through pre-mission and had it beaten into him for two years. He thinks its beautiful now. Sigh. Good luck.

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Posted by: perky ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 09:59PM

I hear you. It me about a year, but my wife has seen the light. What really helped me was the church shooting itself in the foot. I sent her every article in newspapers etc., but not what she saw an "anti." It also helped that some of her co-workers were saying the same things I did.

The members and their idiotic statements and demands also did not hurt. I reminded her how pissed she was a few years ago the bishopric accuses us of trying to steal money because we submitted a request for reimbursement without a receipt.

God's mall was also helpful.

Its finally over for us - yippee.

We are still pretending to be "in" for family and work related issues, but suffice it to say we spend a lot time "out of town" dealing with my father in laws health problems on the weekends. We don't mind making up excuses to avoid the bull shit.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 20, 2014 10:20PM

T.R. GGrrrrrrrrrrr

100% on THAT ONE;

ChurchCo gives frmr DW one, KNOWING that she cheated financially.

the kids think EVERYTHING she did was AOK.


piss on 'em.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: February 21, 2014 12:56AM

Take your little victories where you can, I says.

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