My nevermo gay friend used to go to BYU periodically on business and he always said how stunned he was at how many gay men are there. Way more than in the general population, he said, maybe 20%. He reported a really good time whenever he was there.

Any thoughts on this? Maybe a genetic thing?

Kind of hard to believe. I went to a school in the Midwest that according to The Underground Guide to American Colleges, had "a lot of gay cats" (Cats, it was along time ago).

I never met more than two guys who claimed to be gay. Of course it was still the seventies.

At BYU, even if there if there is a high percentage of gays, it seems they would be more likely to keep it as hidden as they could. Never been there so maybe my impression is way off.

Can't think of any reason it would be true. Genetics is as good an explanation as any but then I don't think any explanation would be a good one.

What exactly is your friend talking about? Gays attending BYU, working for BYU, or just living in the general area?

There are A LOT of gays at BYU and at BYU-I or Ricks. My ex and all his high school friends went to both. Some of them were caught at BYU and kicked out (while married, too). One of his friends from high school taught at BYU, is gay, had never acted on his feelings, and lost his job when he went to his bishop for help with his feelings. My ex's last partner--who was a convert in Boston--went to BYU. I was just remembering my sister's boyfriends (boyfriendS) who went to BYU, ended up together, and still live in Provo and teach school down there. They are around 60 years old.

There is a THRIVING gay community at BYU.

Actually, my ex and I were just reading a blog last night about the tricks the honors committee play on gays to catch them at bYU.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2010 10:54PM by cl2.

Can you post a link to the blog, please?

I know this was a while ago so I won't be surprised if no one notices or responds to this but I am at a loss here. I know TONS of gay students from BYU Provo but only ONE SINGLE GAY PERSON in BYU Idaho. And I go to BYU Idaho!! And I'm gay!

If there are so many gay people here why don't we have our own USGA like BYU Provo? I don't get it. I just thought no gay person in his or her right mind would want to go here.

but he is 55--but ALL his high school friends are gay. Two are still married. Three didn't get married. Several are now divorced. There are plenty of gays in Rexburg. I wouldn't know how to find them. His 2 still married friends live there.

No thoughts on the matter, just giving some anecdotal evidence.

I had about 18 roommates during time at BYU, of them, 2 were out of closet homosexuals.

Given a school that size, I imagine the rate is similar to the national average if not, maybe slightly lower.

Former BYU biology professor Bill Bradshaw has done a lot of work on homosexuality. Here is a link to a lecture he gave at BYU: http://mormonstories.org/?p=1158

In the lecture he says that the most common predictor of or contributor to homosexuality among males is having an older brother. I don't remember the exact word he used, but that is the gist of it. I've heard this before, but Bradshaw's lecture was detailed and instructive.

The theory is that when a woman carries a male fetus, its Y chromosome is a foreign body to her, and she produces antibodies that make it more likely that her hormones in a subsequent pregnancy with a male fetus will affect the developing fetus in a way that causes or contributes to homosexuality. Having an older brother is not the only contributor, and first born males can also be gay, but the correlation between being a gay male and having an older brother is a pretty strong one.

Given that correlation, it is very possible that Mormon families produce a higher number of males with older brothers than the general population. If that is so, then it should follow that more Mormon males than non-Mormon males are gay.

Estimates of how much of the population is gay range from about 4 percent to 10 percent, depending on the criteria used to determine who is gay (i.e., self-reporting of attraction vs. self-reporting of same sex experience, with more reporting the latter than the former).

If the figure is really 10% (which I doubt--I think it's closer to 4%), then maybe it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that BYU students might be double the national average.

I read just this past week of a survey in which 15% of the men surveyed reported same-sex sexual activity at some time in their life, but most of these men did not consider themselves homosexual. If that percentage is correct for the broader society, then it isn't too far-fetched to think that 20% of male BYU students have at least some interest in havine sex with another male, even if they would not consider themselves homosexual. Given Mormon rules against sex outside of marriage, however, my guess is that fewer Mormon males explore having homosexual relations.

When I went to BYU about a hundred years ago, I was not aware of any gay men. That was actually right at the time when they were doing aversion therapy. (OK, so it wasn't really 100 years ago when I was there.) At the time, though, I had no gaydar, so I probably wouldn't have noticed a gay man if seemed repulsed by the idea of holding hands with a female.

Anyway, 20% sounds pretty high to me, and I'm skeptical that the incidence is that high, but I think it is likely that there is a higher percentage at BYU than in the broader population. That said, maybe dr5's friend spends his time hanging around the drama and music departments, stereotypically attractive fields to gays. Maybe there are fewer in, say, engineering and physical science. (And yes, I know that there are gays and straights in both kinds of fields, but my music-major daughter knows a disproportionate number of gay males.)

It's the perfect "beard". You don't have to explain why you are not sleeping with women. Celibacy is considered normal.

Gays in Mormondom compensate for feelings of inferiority (small wonder that with BKP types around) by pouring all their energy into academics. They do much better on average than the guys who are spending all their time trying to get laid. Guess which one gets admitted to BYU?

The number of gay guys at BYU exceeds the number of gays in the general population. I really don't know if Mormon culture tends to concentrate lesbians at BYU or not. I think the inherent misogyny of Mormon culture would make them go elsewhere, but the inherent male homophobia doesn't seem to stop the guys.

BYU BYU where the girls are girls and the boys are too.

Remember that one?

I always thought that BYU had a higher percentage of gays than other universities. But maybe it was just my subjective feeling about the place.

I mean, walking across the BYU campus, your gaydar goes into overdrive. And it could really seem that way for someone not real familiar with the culture. But I doubt if most of those guys are gay. I don't know how to explain it, but there are just a lot of very effeminate mormon males.

But I do think there are a lot of closeted gay guys trying hard to stay that way. I know of some personally who are and always have been obviously gay--never any interest in girls. It's sad because I think they'll eventually marry. They have families who could never in a million years accept them as gay. And so many on this board have experience with how well those marriages work out in the long run. However, I think the percentage of mormon gays is just about the same as the general population.

My friend visited campus about once a month for more than a year. Most visits took about a week. At the time he was a nice looking short-haired preppy-dressing nevermo in his mid twenties. He had a good-paying job and a pocket full of credit cards. He met students (who were not out) on an online message board. He arranged as many encounters as he wanted while there. He also said his gaydar was screaming while he was on campus. Just sayin'.

I attended BYU for two years in the early 80s. My first year in the dorms I met 8 guys who were either out or came out later. BTW, these guys were my friends all on the same floor. An aberration, perhaps, but that was my experience.

I went to BYU for one year in the 90s. I was very naive at the time.

Looking back on it, I think that most of the Resident Advisors in the dorms were gay.

Did you hear about the man eating tiger that got loose on BYU campus?

It starved to death.

Sophia, I would be very shocked if there was only 4% of the population who are gay or 4% of the population at BYU.

My ex and his friends attended there in the 1970s. We graduated in 1975. My sister dated her two gay boyfriends in the 1970s at BYU. Two of our gay friends were caught in "stings" at BYU in the 1970s.

My ex's last partner--who went to BYU in the 1970s--lived in San Diego for YEARS. He moved here 6 years ago (Utah) and he says he has NEVER run into so many gays in one area.

The thing that is quite amazing is to look up gay mormon blogs on the internet. It is a culture all its own. AND there are many mormon guys who have not admitted to themselves yet that they are gay. The idea of admitting it is too much to deal with--the implications of coming to terms with being gay in society, let alone in the mormon church would scare anyone into the closet forever.

One of my acquaintances--who just came out to me recently--has not even told their father or brother. This person is around 60 years old and has been in a relationship for a long time. The family CHOOSES to not acknowledge it. Sit in church some Sunday and look around . . .

Like NormaRae said, mormon men are very effeminate for the most part--not all, but most.

As for the older brother theory . . . My ex is the second son. The first son and my ex are gay. The third son is not gay.

The second daughter (second child) is lesbian (but married in her 60s).

Of 6 children, there are 3 in my ex's family. The neighbors had 3 children and 2 are gay. All my ex's high school male friends (about 14) are all gay.

They are from Rexburg, Idaho.

I come up with my numbers because of the experiences I've had.

I have talked to MANY GAYS over the years. They all went to BYU and they know what the culture is like down there.

My ex has had sex with so many married men in Utah you wouldn't believe.

Did you not see the news stories they've had.

You have no idea how many people have come to me and said, "My brother lives in San Francisco, but we've never asked him if he is gay." The bishop's wife asked me that.

"OR my BIL was picked up at Sugar House park for soliciting sex with a man? But he isn't gay. I'm sure he isn't."

I can't "prove" anything--but people in Utah are living in the dark ages.

Just in the past few years when I have told people I know that my ex is gay--we've been separated for 15 years--they will tell me, "I didn't know there were any gays in Utah."

A girl (31 years old) I work with--she is the R.S. president in a singles' ward. She asked me about two of her close friends who are two guys--she told me about their situation. Gay.

My kids know MANY gays in Utah who are their age. My son lives with 3 roommates. One is gay. AT least the kids in Utah are more accepting--and my TBM daughter is one of them. She has many gay friends. If you think there is less than 10% of the population who is gay--you are living in denial.

In the 90's the American Fork (by Provo) rest area on I-15 was permenantly closed due to rampant Gay sex going on there.

No amount of vice stings could stop it, so they closed it down.

That's a crock. There is not a disproportionate share of gay guys at BYU. Where do y'all come up with that BS? Sensitive? Maybe...Effeminate? Maybe. Gay? No.

Just wonderin'....

Ron

First, I do not believe being gay is a choice.

That being said, if BYU or Mormon's have a disproportionate percentage of gays, the first conclusion as to why, would be choice, or some sort of environmental factor.

Again, I do not beleive being gay is a choice, so I do not believe Mormon's have a higher percentage of gays. Although Mormons seem to have a lot of effeminate men, which could easily be environmental.

The tragedy is that with this much of the population who are gay--and everyone living in the dark ages and having someone like Boyd talk about it--it just perpetuates the pain. It is time for people to acknowledge how many gays there are and allow them to live authentic lives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2010 03:38PM by cl2.

My last word on it--To me, it doesn't matter if the gay population at BYU is 1% or 50%. It doesn't matter to me if 10% of the population is gay or 80%. It doesn't matter how many older brothers a gay has. I don't care about studies.

I find the term SSA (that the LDS church uses) an insult. I find the idea of being "tolerant" offensive.

I want those who are gay to finally be able to live free to be themselves.

There's a difference. Like I said earlier in the tread, there are cultural reasons why BYU tend to draw a higher than average number of gay students. Gay students at BYU don't arouse suspicion if they don't cohabitate with the opposite sex. It is not allowed. They pour their energy into academics to compensate for being gay, so they do well academically.

Academically accomplished students who don't sleep around with the opposite sex. THat's *exactly* what BYU recruits. Duh! Of course it has lots of gays.

Appearances? Polling? Gaydar?

BrotherofJared, if I didn't know better I'd think you're describing me. I grew up a closeted gay TBM - went on a mission, graduated from BYU. You described me to a T! I did very well academically at BYU, graduating Summa Cum Laude. And studying all the time was a great excuse for not dating very much - like you said, the perfect beard! BYU was the perfect place to hide my sexuality. I didn't date much (I have no sexual attraction to women whatsoever) and that was great because everyone thought I was a great example of being morally clean.

I imagine there are quite a few guys like me. Throw yourself into academics, athletics, and the church to hide your sexuality. And what's the best place academically for mormons? BYU!

Unfortunately (or rather fortunately for me) I couldn't keep the charade going forever. Within a year of graduating from BYU I was severely depressed and attempting suicide. Ended up being hospitalized for depression. I learned the hard way that you can't be happy pretending to be something other than what you really are.

Now I'm out and proud. I'm out at work, out to family and friends. And I couldn't be happier.

It happened to me when I first moved here. No, my gaydar is not calibrated towards finding effeminate men. My gaydar is tuned to find the masculine gay men in a crowd.

There were so many masculine men in Utah setting off my gaydar until it re calibrated itself.

The gaydar rules are different in Utah. Maybe there is a slightly longer eye contact here or something like that.

The simple explanation as to why a visitor would have a good time is summed up in the gay slang term "fresh meat".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2012 02:30AM by MJ.

I live in Brisbane, about 2 million, and no one looks long at each other if at all. Sydney seems even less to me. Perhaps a lot of BYU students are from the country?