nothing wrong with a classified section to buy and sell something that is SPECIFICALLY protected in our Constitution

they still have to follow all applicable laws

some folks consider things not even mentioned in the Constitution as protected - yet decry something that is specifically enumerated

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html

US Supreme Court - final word on the subject...

Held:

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.

(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment . Pp. 28–30.

Well some of us actually do belong to a well-regulated Militia. Just so you know.

""
ARTICLE 17 - STATE MILITIA


Article 17, Section 1. Of whom militia constituted.


The militia of the state shall consist of all able-bodied qualified residents of the state, and those nonresidents who are accepted into service, between the ages of seventeen (17) and seventy (70) years; except those exempted by the law of the United States or of the state. But all residents having scruples of conscience averse to bearing arms shall be excused therefrom upon conditions as shall be prescribed by law.
""

All I can say to this is meh. One thing about growing up in Utah that I never lost is that I love me some guns. I have changed a lot as I have matured. I rarely vote republican, I like welfare and gov involvement in business. I want to keep the environment healthy and I like me the gays, but don't you even think about taking my guns away :)

Just wondering...which "well regulated militia" are you part of?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html

US Supreme Court - final word on the subject...

Held:

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.

(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment . Pp. 28–30.

Young males had to serve a certain number of years.

Rather than background checks, LDS gun purchasers should be checked for acts of stupidity that happened during LDS Boy Scout campouts.

If more of these acts were known, people would not sell them a book of matches.

Imagine Goblin Valley with guns.

....armslist.com is #1. Whatever is happening in Utah is a non-issue. Many, many states have unregulated on-line retail sales sites..........which also sell guns. Bloomberg is always generating more political hysteria, which is what serves him best.

...again, non-issue.

Way to reference something out of date.

KSL no longer provides a mechanism by which to list guns. Utahgunexchange.com has essentially supplanted it.

Incidentally, it wasn't the church selling guns, any more than it was the church selling refrigerators, old quilts, broken furniture, Jeep Wranglers, surplus computers, or the other myriad items.

This is a non-issue. If the church is a big arms dealer, it's also the biggest appliance seller and used-car dealer in the country, too. Right after Craigslist.

Guns and Religion go hand in hand.

KSL -(owned by the MORG) should be ashamed of themselves.

Old Lyric:

My two favorite men
Are Jesus and old John Birch
So let's go to the gun sale
At the church

The group was called Van Go

I must be the only one who grew up in a staunchly conservative TBM family in Utah County who hated guns.

Well, don't forget than Mormon John Browning invented three of the most iconic weapons ever: .50 caliber Heavy Machine Gun, .45 automatic, and Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR).

Good thing they didn't have 'em at MMM. (horrid joke, I know)

...yeah, he doesn't get much press, does he. If everyone knew how many patent designs he held, the Church would have to issue an essay on that too.

For what it is worth KSL chickened out of the gunsales and now all of Utah's gun buisness is on utahgunexchange.com

An excellant website I might add....I buy and sell there fairly often. I also buy a lot of reloading stuff there too. Utah Gun Exchange is far better than KSL ever was....

Too soon....

Too soon....

I don't begrudge people who enjoy shooting and hunting and keep a gun around to protect their house.

I do have a problem with the cult of guns that has spread like wildfire over the last 30-40 years. I have a big problem with the explosion in the number of people that feel like they should pack handguns whenever they go out in public. I have a huge problem with people that demagogue about "having our guns taken away" anytime common-sense legislation is proposed for universal background checks or other minor restrictions. 50 years ago, gun ownership meant hunting rifles and shotguns. A relatively small number owned handguns and civilian assault rifles were extremely rare. Nowadays, people hyperventilate about going back to where things were in the 1960's.

I see a hell of a lot of overlap between the Mormon cult and the gun cult. It is not a coincidence that so very many that belong to Mormon cult also belong to the gun cult. Both suffer from paranoia of everything that doesn't look/act/think like themselves and a great many of them suffer from Armageddon derangement syndrome.

I have sat through many EQ/HP meetings where end-of-the-world scenarios were openly contemplated and of course guns were at the top of list for preparations. During such discussions, I often wondered about the example of the Lamanites that buried their weapons. Of course to Mormons (and many others as well), examples from the scriptures only apply when they fit nicely into a right-wing narrative. Otherwise, they are just casually ignored.

Personally, I find it impossible to harmonize gun-nutterism with the the phrase from the Beatitudes "blessed are the peacemakers".



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2014 07:13AM by Strength in the Loins.

You're wrong on a lot of counts. I grew up in California and had to turn guns in (SKS Model M, if you're curious), which the state first registered and then required to be handed in. You can read about it here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=30001-31000&file=30710-30735

Confiscation, plain and simple. Those that argue people are paranoid about having them taken away are, to put it mildly, either unaware of history or happy to hand-wave it away.

Most gun-owners would be happy to have universal background checks if the portal for background checks (NICS) were open to the public. It's not. So, to sell a gun to my neighbor in a state that requires universal background checks (ie, Cali), we both have to tramp down to the local FFL twice in order to execute the transfer. Various laws have been proposed to require universal background checks and allow NICS to be open, but they've been shot down by gun control groups. Here's one such example:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/04/27/do-it-yourself-background-checks/2088479/

If you want to roll back the clock to the 60's, one could mail-order guns from the Sears catalog and have them drop-shipped to your door. No background check, no age check. I doubt that's what you had in mind.

You claim that gun owners suffer from paranoia of everything that doesn't look/act/think like themselves. Couldn't be further from the truth. The biggest growth in gun ownership lately is among minority women. Most gun owners are reasonable people, just like most non-gun-owners are. However, only the unreasonable ones make themselves noteworthy, leading to a slanted public perception. Some more news links:
http://news.yahoo.com/more-more-women-buying-guns-why-123214928.html

To your last point, Jesus also told his followers that whomever among them didn't have a sword, to sell their cloak and buy one. The idea of a pacifist Jesus is a relatively new one. I don't believe in Jesus, but the notion that gun ownership = violence is mistaken.

If I come off sounding harsh, it's because you're painting with a really wide brush. Nobody likes being called paranoid or bigoted for enjoying a hobby shared by millions of other Americans.

I like my guns though I don't have the huge collection I once had. What I kept was mostly high purpose use and family handmedowns. I reload my own ammo and I used to compete. I have a CCW permit and if I feel I must, or should, I do carry. I carry a Glock 10mm when fishing or hiking in the woods. Why, becasue I cant run very fast from danger, I haven't got claws or fangs to protect myself and my outer hide is about as tough as a slab of bacon and my innards about as tough as a loaf of bread......so I carry a gun.

No, I am not some dooms dayer and I hate ted nugent with a passion. HE is a lousy poster child for the gun owners of america. I no longer belong to the NRA because I view them as the gun organization equivelant of the the Mormon church....all about the money.

I know a bunch of CCW permit holders who carry every day when in public and they are law abiding citizens who pay taxes and would gladly put themselves in harms way just like law enforcement would to stop a bad situation....they would lay down their life if they had to to save someone.

So long as I remain a law abiding citizen, I have the right to arm myself. I go hunting each year and put healthy protein on the table, though I am not the hunter I used to be, but I still go.....I don't want to become too domesticated.

Don't lump me into the same doomsday nut case religious fnanatics just because I happen to like guns.

That story is dated February of 2012, over two years ago. And as others have said, KSL no longer allows classified gun ads. Other online sites have been created.

I would like to see the 2nd Amendment repealed.

Just because a something is part of the Constitution does not mean all agree it's sacrosanct.

I'm sure most Americans believe the Constitution could be improved.

I'm also sure tens of millions of Americans believe the key to improving the document is to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

I will give you credit for at least proposing the only legal route to outlawing guns in the US; amending the Constitution.

It will never happen, of course, your overestimation of "tens of millions" of Americans against 200 million or so gun owners might be tricky. And you'll never get the 37 States you need to ratify. Maybe 5. Maybe.

I'm curious *why* you wish to eliminate a fundemental, enumerated, Constitutionally protected civil right?

I am wary of anyone that approves of putting a gun into the hand of a TBM.

Would those against guns please put a sign on your front door saying, "Gun Free Zone".

I'm guessing you won't, because you are depending on those with guns to be a deterrent against intruders.

Blanket statement....

Most people who don't like guns are afraid of guns. So, taking away guns takes away their fear....

But they have it wrong... big time.

Fearing violence is one thing... fearing the violent is another. Guns don't make violent people violent. They are a tool that can be used for violent purposes. Statistically, knives and clubs cause more death in the US than firearms. Car accidents... the same.

The ignorance of the pacifist would have us disarm our military and the people in general. They never think past step one. That makes them dangerious and foolish. Only a fool follows a fool.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2014 02:46PM by reconstituted.

I'm all for the right to have a gun. But I do have to say it scares me that a lot of Mormons have them. Are you gay? POW! Are you an exmo? POW! Are you a dem? POW! And yes, I really do believe that they are that unstable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2014 02:58PM by Tupperwhere.

Members have killed other members because of direction from their leaders in the past, so Tupperwhere is not far off base at all. I do think anything is possible in the TSCC because they have turned to the dark-side.