I hear and read the sentiment that the church is to blame for major problems in one's life. This message from Brendon Burchard is beautifully written and well worth the two minutes it takes to read it:

By Brendon Burchard- Live, Love, Matter
We begin with this: aliveness, joy, openness, curiosity, love. Whether or not we keep these things is up to us alone.

Yet we often blame lack of those things on our past, on those who treated us poorly in years gone by. It's not popular to say this, but here it is: Our personal past is only relevant if we choose to make it relevant. In this moment, we can direct our aim, attitude, affection, and actions in any way we desire now, regardless of the past. This isn't to say the past is irrelevant, or that the previous chapters of our life's story didn't have depth and meaning and influence. It's simply to say that as conscious and mature humans we have the remarkable ability to direct our minds and lives in this moment.

Yes, there was pain and hardship and disappointment for all of us. But let's not let those darker moments or years now paint the color of our emotional sky. Let us not be so confused by the darkness that we fail to see the extraordinary light, those beaming and beautiful moments that blessed our lives. It's the lesson written in a million ways across most spiritual practices: The only useful time in considering the past is to be grateful for it, to make peace with it, to accept or forgive it, to learn from it and use it as a springboard in deciding who we wish to be today.

No one pretends this work is easy. Some find it painful, impossible. A stunning number of people are living out self-images and a set of beliefs and standards that were developed not by choice but by their automatic responses to the events and people from their past. Some make their past a convenient dumping ground for unmet expectations and regret. ("She should have treated me this way, not that way; I should have been better cared for; I wish I had done this or that.") Some say, “Well you just don’t understand. This thing happened to me…” as if their ego has allowed them to believe they are the only one across the millennia or of seven billion alive today who endured such a thing. And so today, some blame their past (or their unconscious hangover from it) on their failures in making good choices for themselves.

Bad things happened to us, no doubt, but surely that cannot be the sole justification of bad behavior today. Good things happened, too. If only we could integrate those lessons and joys and blessings as much as the wounds.

What if a person’s bad choices or low self-image needn't be tied to the past? For even if you wade backwards and seek the dark crevices of yesterday, what will you do after the visit? You will at some point have to swim back to the stream of Now, to stand upon the shores of today, to rest and sit down and decide who you want to be, how you want to treat others, what you want your life to be about from this moment forth. Isn't that the aim of all therapies that glance backwards anyway? The only goal of any helpful and responsible therapy is ultimately to bring the patient back to today, to help him or her develop agency and responsibility for their lives today, to make better decisions and create healthier habits for themselves today. There is no joy or learning or growth in living in the past forever. All progress is made in positive beliefs and behaviors enacted… today.

So, for some of us, we might choose to skip all the neck cranking and simply sit down and do that work: What decisions and habits can I begin making today that will improve my life? That one question brings it all into focus.

Again, no one pretends this work is easy. Some people need professional assistance and therapy to do this work, and without question, they should seek it. So, to those who will hate on this post, or accuse me of being cold, or drag their past here screaming with great ego and hurt, or seek to belittle humankind's remarkable ability to rise from their history and transcend, fear not: I acknowledge many people need assistance in dealing with their past (and life). And they should seek it.

I also champion people without judgment for their strength, for struggling through, for being alive today, for meeting life with hope and guts and readiness.

But I don't fear being blunt either: Some people simply need to turn off the blame and the television, to sit down with a journal on a regular basis, and to finally, after all this time, think about their life and consciously choose their identity, their habits, their relationships, their purpose, their next chapter.

No matter where we have been, let us now be strong and grateful, and let us get to work on our lives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 04:05PM by jimbob.

This is definitely Jim Bob's favorite subject.
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1025013,1025018#msg-1025018
But as a convert he fails to realize what TSCC can actually do to people raised from birth in it.
Why does he fail so hard? He was a convert at age 27! He has no clue what he's talking about when it comes to the mindfuckery perpetuated by this cult:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1025517,1025525#msg-1025525

Why don't exmos just move on?
Many converts will never truly grasp what BIC go through. And many TBMs can never stomach the fact that their one true and perfect church of Juheeezus could possibly be a root cause of so much human suffering and death. That's right, why do TBM children kill themselves? They should really just move on and BE the mentally healthy paragon Jim Bob wants them to be. Don't we all wish.

It's not merely cold of you, it's heartless. Go fight TSCC instead of telling us to get over it. The rest of us are fighting this cult, even though you think we're just mooning around whining about our butthurt egos.
Don't all TBMs wish we'd just get over it and move on... Wouldn't it be great if there was no need to share with newly awakened former mormons that they are not alone, their experiences are shared, we are here to help them work through the pain, the loss, the feelings that don't just go away because the future is brighter now.

I'd be willing to bet that indeed the church is becoming kinder and gentler now, the TBM children of today won't be quite as damaged as we who grew up as Saturday's Warrior children, and those who are grandchildren of polygamous perverts. But for now, it is a huge relief to MANY people to hear how and what the church did to all of us, and the lasting damage that TSCC REALLY DOES. It is not something to be brushed off like a bit of lint.

What did Jim Bob ever have to recover from? He was never a second class citizen, told to let the men do the thinking, never you mind your pretty little head about that. He was never told he was marked by the sins of his fictional ancestor. He was never told he is an abomination... Do tell, Jim Bob...

Holy cow. I didn't expect this response at all. Where in the world does it say "get over it" anywhere in my post? I posted as a message of hope. You don't know me, and you have NO IDEA the fucked up childhood I had to get over myself. NO IDEA. It's what drove me to join the church in the first place. I've had my own healing process to go through. My post was intended as a message of hope. We CAN move beyond this phase of life. You make many assumptions in your reply to me. It seems you're angry at the mere suggestion that moving on is possible. And if you re-read ALL of the posts in the thread you mentioned, you'll see I took counsel from posters and re-thought my assumptions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 06:08PM by jimbob.

That was the most beautiful example of passive-aggresion that I've seen in a long time Jim.

Post One
"Y'all are fucked in the head. Get over it already. Own your own problems."

Post Two
"Why are you being so mean to me?"



And again, to say what I've said before: I've been "out" for around 15 years now. But my parents, and many of my relatives and friends, are still "in". My ex is still "in". My children are in various stages of being "in". I was born in rural Utah, in the early 60s. Mormonism infused my life, to the core. Resolving all of the issues in my life, related to mormonism, has been an almost life-long endeavor. Sure, it gets easier each year. But it's still there - always. The little green gremlin under the bed, if you will.

As soon as the church leaves me and mine alone, I'll leave it alone. Until then, all bets are off. (And part of the church leaving me alone is me processing through all of the dysfunctional thought patterns and emotional hang-ups given to me by the church when I was a youngster.)

The church doesn't get to fuck with people's heads and people's lives, and then ask for a freebie when the inevitable blowback from their shenanigans start to hit them in their face, or bite them in their ass.

Agreed! Being indoctrinated during the formative years ceratainly has a more longterm effect than being sold a bill of goods as a 27 yr old adult who should already have critical thinking skills.

When my entire family is out, lawbreakers are jailed and the wealth has been converted to shares and distributed fairly to the lifetime payers, THEN, I'll "get over it".

And IplayedJoe.

PS
Isin't it really "BUC" instead of "BIC"?

I hope you're joking. I must assume you are.

I'm not joking at all.

Wow. I literally was happy about what I read. It gives me hope to believe we can move past the hurts of our past and lead a happy life moving forward. As it says in the quote I posted, it doesn't mean it will be easy, but it's POSSIBLE. I regret you believe I'm full of it. I hope you're able to move past it someday sister IF that's your desire. If not, I don't assume to tell you that you SHOULD. Only that it gives me hope to believe that we can if we choose to do so.

What you fail to realize is that many of us are past it, and we still strive to help people people who are leaving, help the church become better, point out the harmful things the church still teaches. Many of us have been damaged, we don't have to move past it, we can embrace it and move us to the hope that someday the church won't be hurting anyone. We fight for that day, not because we lay all of our problems at the feet of the church, but because we have hope for the members of the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 07:14PM by David Jason.

acknowledging the hurt, seeing the unhealthy behavior patterns, and sometimes feeling the outrage (sometimes for the first time).

And just so you know, exmos are not the only people who visit the past multiple times while they are processing what happened to them. I've seen this happen with a TBM abuse surviver I'm close to. What I have seen firsthand is that if you don't dig deep enough to figure out what went wrong it will happen again. Maybe with a different church, a different situation, or a different relationship.

And BTW, I do see abuse and manipulation as the primary problems with the LDS church. All religions believe crazy stuff that can easily be disproven. But the LDS church makes people afraid to think or question, and convinces them that they will lose their family for all eternity if they leave. It's the control and fear indoctrination that hurt and control people, and the shame and shunning after they leave.

The point of recovery is not to blame. That gets you nowhere. The point is to find the behaviors that were warning signs and what felt wrong, and then the challenge is to find ways to stop that from ever happening again. And if you can educate other people so they won't be victims, so much the better.

Unless you know a person individually, it's impossible to say if they are wallowing in their misery, or just not getting over it fast enough. It's an individual journey. Generalized exhortations to move it along come across judgements in disguise. They are about as motivating as telling everyone to "quicken your step, and lengthen your stride". For someone who is doing the best they can, it doesn't help.

I understand. I still have angry flare ups occasionally when a TBM relative makes an insensitive remark. I get it. I wish you guys could get inside my head. You'd see this post was meant as a message of hope. It certainly gives me hope to think I can someday move beyond the challenges. Maybe I didn't grow up in the church but I did have my own childhood experience which included multiple physical beatings (with bruises) per week for several years. Only when I knocked the shit out of my parent did they finally stop. I'm moving on with life and I regret that what started as a message of hope that resonates deeply with me turned out to be an unwelcome message here. I was sharing a part of myself and it certainly is not appreciated. I am sorry for this and will never post again. Cheers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 06:52PM by jimbob.

Don't take it personally. I really do think that overcoming your past is a subpar goal, trying to deny the past will ultimately lead to making the same mistakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 06:56PM by jacob.

"Our personal past is only relevant if we choose to make it relevant."

How can that possibly be true? Our past is integral to our perception, everything that has ever happened to us is taken and interacts with our senses to create the image that is in front of us. I think that the message to overcome your past is a bad message. Embrace it, build on it, make it foundational to how you operate in the future.

I agree. If we ignore our past, we are doomed to relive it over and over. How can we stop doing destructive things if we never acknowledge them and use that info to make changes?

We don't have to live in our past, but forgetting(if possible) or pretending like it never happened isn't useful to us.

I think it become harmful when you try to play the what if game to change the past. The past is useful to learn from, but trying to change the past is counter productive. We can only learn from the past to change our future.

I get what you're saying, but what makes the LDS church so difficult for many of us to recover from is that even after we leave, the church still plays a role in our lives. Many of us have spouses, children and extended family that are still in the church. Many of us have left the church, but whether we like it or not, the church still plays a role in our lives because our families are still connected to it.

I would love nothing more than to only see the church in the rear-view mirror as I move on down the road of life. Unfortunately, the church still has a place in the passenger's seat next to me. And not only that, it's an annoying backseat driver. So, sometimes I think it deserves the blame for my bumpy ride.

The funny thing about recovery jimbob, is that only the person in recovery gets to define it. It is as varied as the depths of our scars. What gives YOU hope, might sound like condescending jibberish to others. And in this case, at least to me, quite close to the teachings of the very beast I choose to confront.

A victim can feel like a victim and that is OK.

about 2 hours ago. I asked myself am I still angry about what happened to my life? Sometimes. Just depends on the day--seeing the price my kids have paid for my gay/straight marriage which was pushed on us by the lds church, though I was the one who had to pick up all the pieces when he chose to leave.

I have healed a lot (a lot of it due to this board). I was very angry when I found this board and I hated my ex. He and I are best friends now. I have a lot of good in my life.

BUT before I came back to the board, I got an e-mail from another ex of a gay and I see what she is going through, what has happened to her life because she trusted the lds church.

This is why I'm still angry and why I still talk about it. I'm tired of seeing gays and the people who end up married to some gays go through so much because of the lds teachings.

Most of us here (I've been here a while) have done a lot of healing, but it never works to suppress things. I think anger is healthy. Like someone else said, you don't want to keep repeating the same mistakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 07:21PM by cl2.

My parents practically demanded that I forget the past. The abuse is on their bloody hands. Neither does the great and evil church have clean hands. Forgiveness is the last refuge of a perpetrator.

When I made the post, it meant that I personally can now choose how to view my own sordid past. I personally can move past the anger I've felt for years. I've been quietly working through this...reading this board...talking with friends. Suppressing the past was never part of it for me. I'm going through my own recovery in my own way. I hoped this message would resonate with a few as it did with me. I can literally choose to live my life in any way that works for me and I don't have to allow the past to create negativity in my future. That's what it means TO ME. It's not to say that I think anyone or everyone needs to get over it and stop whining. It means there's hope. THERE'S A LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL. I've understood this concept logically for quite some time but it's now sinking into my true understanding ad experience. My hope is that at least one person finds hope in this message as well. It will have been worth the misunderstandings and assumptions. I doubt any of you will be big enough to apologize for the assumptions you made about my intention here. Just realize that I am also recovering and it would have been nice for someone to congratulate me for realizing a golden nugget and continuing the recovery process. Alas...it is not to be and I'm fine with that. I haven't posted much so I will not be particularly missed, but I am recovering and will not likely read or participate in this board any further. Good luck to all.

Michael Wolf



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 07:51PM by jimbob.

Years ago on this Board, someone said that once you are on the road to recovery from mormonism, you can subconsciously use your bad church experiences as an excuse to stop you from venturing out of your comfort zone. Like wearing a comfy old pair of slippers, which you could swap for adventure boots and start really living again.

I didn't understand what they were getting at at the time, but I do now. It's easy to think, "I'm afraid to do... (whatever) because the church has taken away my self-esteem / confidence etc", when in reality you could have a go at it. It all depends on your own personal circumstances, and whether the church tentacles are still around you.

I hear and read the sentiment that the church is to blame for major problems in one's life. This message from Brendon Burchard is beautifully written and well worth the two minutes it takes to read it:

It doesn't sound like you are sharing, but preaching.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 08:05PM by fudley.

> It doesn't sound like you are sharing, but preaching.

This. The preamble to the main part of the post was worded a little like "and now this conference talk from This Apostle will explain to you why you are totally wrong about everything ever and also likely evil" that people have heard over and over in conferences and then regurgitated in sacrament meeting talks. This maybe stuck in the craw of a lot of folks.

That said... OP, if you read this I'm glad you are recovering and I wish you well :)

[Edit: changing "them" to "you" in last line.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 08:39PM by safetynotguaranteed.

BIC have a slew of phobias, anxieties and things were not supposed to think. There was a whole Utah culture where no one publicly was willing to speak truth to power. I remember ward members, giving furtive glances to check who was in ear shot and then whispering, "when women get the priesthood . . ." or "Joseph didn't get xxxx right".

Well we are thinking through all those thoughts now. We are saying all those forbidden ideas now. We are free to say "the emperor has no clothes" after decades of peer and societal pressure to conform and agree that "the cloth is spectacular and the cut is perfect."

We've all been "gaslighted" and it will take a while to process what we do and don't know. what is real and what was planted there by our church/parents/culture.

Being Mormon touched every part of our thinking, it takes some time to weed through our own thoughts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 08:12PM by crom.

Grandpa would read a self help book, or an article in Psychology Today, and decide that this one single idea was the cure to all problems.

Some psychology tidbit would be inflated to be the modern day "snake Oil" that cures an all inclusive list of ailments.

He would be like a toddler playing one note on a piano over and over and over. After a year or two he would change the note.

For a while he preached "you make your own luck" and "the harder I work the luckier I get". Then he preached from the bible of self esteem "I'm Okay, You're Okay". On it would go. No matter the problem or topic of discussion he had this year's miracle cure from some pop psychology book.

We get it, JimBob has "A" (singular) philosophy that cures whatever anyone's got. Stop whining and over thinking and then everything will be okay.

It sounds very much like a phrase I hate, "Why can't you just leave it alone". I don't take kindly to being told to "Just shut up, you know, for your own good".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 08:24PM by crom.

I actually read op quote from Brennen bruchard and really liked it. Thank you for sharing. Sorry for the negative replies when you were just trying to post something positive.

Where did you get the source? One of his books? Thanks.

JimBob,

You shared something that helped you, that resonated with you because you were ready to hear that. Sometimes your pearl is someone else's handful of shit. They are just not ready to hear it the same way you were.

This is not personal toward you because the sentiments expressed are you quoting Brendon Burchard-- you are sharing his words here and, frankly, many of his thoughts apply to perhaps a traumatic experience in the past (you certainly had that) but may not be so applicable to a badly damaging cult upbringing followed by wasted years of slavery.

You see, Mormonism imposes values on a person which remain, like a worm, eating at you on the inside. It is a lifelong job to recognize and root everyone of those grafted values and make a conscious decision to reject it and replace it with a value that you yourself chose.

When a person realizes their very personality formation was hijacked by liars, it can leave you feeling empty, formless, stolen, raped and ruined. Then on top of this, you are shunned and vilified by the people who most people depend on to love them unconditionally, your family.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, I know you could write your own book about this pain and all it involves. What I am asking is for you to look at some of the author's statements and understand how they could be offensive to us, whereas they were inspirational to you. For example,

" Our personal past is only relevant if we choose to make it relevant." Really? Can a person actually discount years of cult programming at any given moment?

Or another one

"It's simply to say that as conscious and mature humans we have the remarkable ability to direct our minds and lives in this moment." Which suggests that a person should be able to just flip the switch from being just an obeyer to being a fully actualized independent human being in this moment. This is like saying, "The bones and muscles will heal that broken leg and you are fully capable of walking at any given moment."

Another quote which minimizes the need for personal acceptance of oneself during a healing and cult recovery that most people understand takes time:

"Bad things happened to us, no doubt, but surely that cannot be the sole justification of bad behavior today. Good things happened, too. If only we could integrate those lessons and joys and blessings as much as the wounds." This is like saying good things also came as a result of the Holocaust, that we got access to medical experiments done on human beings that would never be allowed today. Can you understand how Jews would react to anyone who said that?

There is nothing that can compensate for the terrible, terrible damage that Mormonism has done by indoctrinating into people the ridiculous idea that a parent's time and money should be given to the LDS church and that God would give blessings to compensate the children.

I hope I am not being too harsh to tell you that Mormon doctrines have killed people, including children. It kills hope and promotes such an overriding guilt over such trivia as masturbation that a beautiful teenage life is ended in suicide. It also drives some young people mad and they are sent home in strait jackets from their mission. You won't read about these in the Deseret News.

I could list more tragedies which are linked directly with Mormon beliefs and some of the victims of sexual abuse are reading this post. The perpetrators were protected and the victims blamed and you can't tell them that in this moment they can discard their feelings of outrage "at any moment they choose."

This is why people are reacting -- it's not you. You are one of us, a person recovering trying to share what works for you. I could not be happier for you if you are ready to move on. Managing your mental state after first having a brutal upbringing and then having cult conditioning jammed down your throat...if that works for you and feels right, you go!

You and everyone here is searching for the path which will lead them to a point of balance and happiness in spite of losing so much when all we wanted to do was please God and be the best person we could be.

You are in good company here and I hope you will stay. Your contributions are welcome and a reaction like this should provide insight for you and a deeper understanding of how hard it is to come to the point where you can completely walk into the sunset and leave it all behind.


Anagrammy

PS. I converted at 27 too and I will suffer the consequences of my deciding to be baptized for the rest of my life. You don't have to be BIC to be f*cked over.

> PS. I converted at 27 too and I will suffer the consequences of > my deciding to be baptized for the rest of my life. You don't have to be BIC to be f*cked over.

So true. Thanks for pointing this out.

I used to love to mountain bike - still do, actually, but I used to live for it.

My older sister, who has major problems, would moan about them, and my reaction was to want to help, so I offered to buy her a bike. I figured it would bring her the same happiness.

It didn't.

Sometimes, what brings one person joy does nothing for someone else, mostly because of differing personalities and circumstances. I see jimbob's post as similar to my wanting to buy a bike. Something worked great for him and he wants to share it. I didn't see his post as preachy, rather as wanting to help.

However, someone who has PTSD and other serious problems because of ill treatment is probably going to need a different kind of path.

I get the point of the OP.

After I left the church, I went to a therapist who hated religion. She promoted anger inside of me. She invited me to group therapy. I noticed several of the people there had been coming for years. I asked her if I would have to be coming for years to overcome my anger. She said everyone is on a different schedule.

I was paying her $60 per visit. One week, she made a comment that we could be as successful as her with her, and she had been able to build a nice, big house. It struck me at that moment that I was paying for that house. And it was in her interest to keep me angry.

And so I think often people come on here and spread their anger around. Sure, I can see a few weeks or months of anger, but how do we know this place doesn't perpetuate it?

Kind of like church, when one person does their fake crying thing, and others learn to do their fake crying, how do we know we aren't learning fake anger?

Some seem to brag about how angry they are, like TBMs brag about how humble or touched they are by the spirit.

There is a lot of genetics and personality traits involved, also. I have had to admit that the way I see things is not so much determined by my circumstances, but my personality. Some people realize the church is BS, and never look back. Others with the same background, are traumatized forever.

Just as in war - same situation, and one soldier laughs it off, and the other gets messed up.