There's been a number of recent threads (always a recurring topic I guess) about how the atheists are wrong to deny the existence of god and on the other side, why theists are wrong to believe.

I lean more on the side of the atheists though I guess I'm more in the 'I don't care' category.



My question to the theists is why does it matter? What does the existence (or non-existence) of a god do to change my life?

If a god exists... great, I still need to get up in the morning, go to work, do good for my kids, etc.

If a god doesn't exist... great, I still need to get up in the morning, go to work, yada yada..



I just don't see why it matters at all. Is it the hope that there may be some other worldly benefit to holding this belief? Please, enlighten me.

Not sure that such things matter much.

Any "god" that exists -- in the way that
a rock or a tree exists, is only a larger
extension of entities we are already familiar
with.

Sure -- on some distant planet, in some
distant galaxy, an entity may "exist" that
is so far evolved beyond what I know, that
I might well call it a "god."

But, even if we one day encounter that super
being -- it will not be the source of the
cosmos and the source of existence itself.

I'd say that it's an absurd notion, to think
that anything in "existence" can itself create
and sustain the universe.

Maybe -- if we ever meet up with the hypothetical
godlike space alien, we can ask what his species
has concluded about such questions.

UD

If it doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't matter (to you). :)

It is difficult for me to understand why does it bother or annoy anyone if someone does or does not believe in God. Assuming that there is no agenda someone is pushing, or that the _belief_ in existence or non-existence of God isn't otherwise damaging (such as to the family relationships as is the case with TSCC), what does it matter?

Been a while posting but this topic resonated with me. As an atheist, I really could care less what other people believe in. the problem arises when those beliefs are pushed on everyone else. "I believe God exists. God says such and such is wrong, therefore, I am going to make a law that holds everyone to what my God says." If everyone would keep their beliefs to themselves then it truly wouldn't matter.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2014 06:44PM by phoebe64.

Absolutely. I think on a forum like this one has to be particularly respectful of thoughts of others, and, perhaps understanding of belief systems in turmoil. When people exit TSCC it is equally likely that a person angrily discards everything that even remotely reminds them of a religion as it is for him or her to keep their independent world view, or perhaps move to somewhere less controlling. So, yes, people might refer to God, but as long as they refer to it as their own opinion and not as something others should do/think as well, I think it is fine.

Since the charter of the board – I believe – is to help people with their transition out of TSCC, an atmosphere that is vehemently anti-belief is not helpful as not everybody heads that direction.

This makes sense. So then god serves as like a cushion to break the fall so to speak.

We as ex-mormons have experienced great life changing turmoil and so much loss! We each have had the courage to face great pain and to travel a new journey to an authentic life with the freedom to think and choose what we will follow or believe.
I respect the help you each give others. My faith in God is between Him and Me. I wish you all well.

Thanks for replying!

Ok, so in your post-mormon state, what purpose does god serve for you? Is he/she more of an entity to go to for comfort when you're trying to figure stuff out? Does your belief in him/her steer you away from doing immoral/unethical things?

Just trying to understand the role of god in a post mormon life (understanding 1 size doesn't fit all..)

Believing christians have advised me to ask questions of pastors or apologists. I have to count it a loss for having anything to do with Mormonism as it is based on twisted scriptures and a false gospel. Would you like some websites of experienced and learned Christians to answer your questions?
I know a few.

No, that's ok. My question wasn't about christianity or christ at all (unless you think god and christ are 1 in the same). It was just about god. But if I can read between the lines of what you said, you think mormonism is a joe smith bastardization of the real truth which is some purer form or christianity? That close to right?

Couldn't agree more. Why does it matter so much to some . . . one way or the other? I assume it's been used in this forum before, but "apathiest" is an appropriate title for those of us who feel this way.

Mind over matter:

If you don't mind
It don't matter

Excellent +100

+ 50 more

I would have to agree. I've always thought if there is a god, he lives outside of the realm of our universe. Now, many scientists are thinking there may be a sea of 'multiverses'. It might be possible there is a deiety that created are universe (and possibly others) that lives outside our univers. Who knows? There really is no way to know for sure in this lifetime at least.

If God procreated us, put us on this planet, hid from us, and then damned us unless we believed in Him, then he matters. If this God exists who could only figure out how to bring his "children" home to Him by nailing one to a cross and drowning a few thousand more, then he scares me, and so he matters.

And the reason this matters is I believe the old saying, Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. Mormon God is an enemy for sure. I do not wish to be visited by his plagues of frogs and flies and killing all the first born male children.

On the other hand, I'll start caring whether God exists as soon as I see a sign that he does and that sign will not be a flower, a sunset, a baby, and especially not a mess of an old book full contradictory phrases and a lot of ugliness with no historical proof of divinity.

I bear testimony that it's possible there is a god, but I'm not sure.

With every fiber of my being, I know that god might exist.

I know without a shadow of a doubt that if there is a god, he probably loves us.

amen.

Good testimony. I would need to see some verification of the God you doubt though before I would believe He loves us. But, if it turns out there is an afterlife and there is some superpower that we are beholden' to, I would like to bear my testimony now that this entity is not going to be anything like any of the gods described by the religions of this world.

I'm an atheist. I would love an afterlife. I would love to know that I could take what I've learned in this life and build on it in the next. The idea of eternal progression was intoxicatingly appealing to me. I don't need a reward. I just still want to keep learning and experiencing new things forever. It would be nice.

I appreciated your testimony, but I noticed you said the words "possible", "I'm not sure", "might exist", "if" and "probably"... are you okay? whats wrong? why don't you KNOW like the rest of the group?? are you sinning somehow??? You better talk to the bishop next sundee and get those doubts properly doubted!

But here you're thinking about the Christian God, a concept which was already in the original Christianity substantially simplified for the contemporaries to have some kind of grasp of. Mormons took it a step (or two) further by making god just a personage higher up in the chain. And even Jesus, who in Mormonverse is above us but below god in TSCC MLM, is not the easy-going fellow with good tithings of peace unto you, but he wipes out cities upon cities on the "chosen" continent before stopping for a chat.

Now, this is my opinion :-).. I think that God "procreated" everything – including us – through the means of natural processes, all of which is part of the manifestations of God (so, if the miraculous things you experience in this world are insufficient for proof, I'm afraid you'll have to wait for the end of this lifetime.. but that, too, is fine :). The concept of God actively creating worlds, shaping them, creating human beings, etc. is likely true only if this is a simulation of sorts, which while I don't believe in, I consider it a possiblity. We just would have no way to know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2014 07:17PM by Facing Tao.

Good points.

When I was a kid the people in my ward used to talk a lot about how everyone on earth was consumed with knowing the answers to those three "mormon" questions. "Who are we? Why are we here? Where are we going?" And us lucky Mormons were the only ones who knew the answers! We were so proud.

I found out later in life, most people are not thinking about those things constantly--if at all.

I am fine not knowing. It actually brought a lot of peace and a better focus to my life. I'm atheist, but I'm open, like most other atheists I've met.

Boils down to punishment. Punishment is the base line. GOD!!! WILL!!! PUNISH!!! YOU!!!!!!. However, what if you like being punished? Doesn't matter, god won't play fair. He will just bless you till it hurts. HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

TSCC god will. Christian god will, to a somewhat lesser degree. My opinion is that he won't. I'm not so sure that even someone like Hitler will get a "punishment" per se in the form of "burning in hell forever". It's more likely that there would be a Karmatic balance of sorts (but even then I don't think it's very likely that Hitler is doing time as a worm or a cockroach now; the Universe has its ways to balance such deeds over significantly long periods of "time").

As an issue of accuracy the ancient Sumarian tablet translations should be given consideration

It can matter to some people because belief in the existence or non-existence of God can partially determine the guidelines that they live their lives by.

I wasn't as clear as I should've been. I was specifically referring to the exmo population. Why does it matter after one has come to terms with mormonism.

Then they're out of luck, because I doubt it can be ever proven at least scientifically. So unless personal realization suffices for such people, they're left to fend for themselves. ;-)

It doesn't matter whether god exists or not. What does matter is what people believe about god. If enough people are convinced this god is so important that conversion of non religious people must take place at the edge of a sword I.e. 15th century Catholicism, or that the belief in their version of god is necessary for not only them but for all others to the point of slaying non believers..then it becomes most vital for everyone. Unfortunately zealots influence extends far beyond the believing few.

Powerful people use information or misinformation for gaining power. JS, Hitler, Stalin, etc.

The reason I don't like people believing in god is because they do evil things in his name. Science flies men to the moon. Religion flies men into buildings. In the case of Mormonism, dozens of children were bludgeoned to death after watching their parents get shot to death, September 11, 1857.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2014 09:56PM by rationalist01.

Dammit Rationalist01, I was trying to come up with a really great response and your four sentences pretty much summed it up! Nicely put!

Atheist do not "deny" that which doesn't exist.

To claim that we are denying something implies that it exists.

check your premise.

So then what's the atheist-approved way to say what I was trying to say there?

Knowing that God exists is important because it just feels good to know that the creator of the Universe shares your personal views and agenda. It is comforting to know that the ruler over everything just happens to share your concerns, interests, and agendas.

It's great having an invisible friend who monitors your every move and suspends the natural laws on your behalf when you need it. A magical friend can give you answers on tests, play on your team, grant wishes, and smite your enemies.

Uncertainty is uncomfortable to live with. God is the answer to every unanswerable question. Certitude brings comfort. It feels good to know that someone IS in charge and that everything will be made fair in the next life. Receiving a gift basket of apples and finding the top layer all moldy and rotted.... it is comforting to know that fairness demands that the bottom layer will be fresh and delicious.

The prime reason though that there MUST be a god is that it means death is not real. Death is not the end of us. We get to go on living, as do our loved ones. Imagining a world in which we are not present is very difficult.

It is offensive for someone to argue that god might not exist because it brings into question things that some people just have to believe in order to be happy. It matters.

A closing thought here.

When you're a would-be gas station attendant applying
for a job in Rexburg, Idaho -- and you know that the
boss only hires believing TBMs -- the "existence" of
the Mormon gods becomes important to you for reasons
far removed from philosophical questions.

It becomes a matter of livelihood, and you may find
one part of your mind asking "can the church really
be true," while your voice is bearing testimony in
Sunday meeting -- and bringing a smile to your new
boss's face.

THEN it may matter -- even if your questioning process
ends up not being very rigorous.

UD