I don't know if the public are able to enter Court 6.

If the Morg were successful in having the initial hearing closed to the public would that suggest they know this isnt a walk in the park?

I would welcome this if they tried. It would suggest they are on the back foot, and far from a light on a hill and beacon of truth they suppose to be.

They're probably trying to suppress this....restrict Tom from speaking about it even.

An army of lawyers versus one, or three.

A reverse Abinadi

Go Tom

I understand that criminal proceedings cannot be held In Camera in the Magistrates Court. These proceedings are in the public interest and like weddings, must be public here in the UK.

I'd be surprised if Americans managed to pull off an unconstitutional precedent.

Briggy

Well maybe it's more than a stab in the dark.

Like I say, we shall see.

Maybe in a couple of hours we can get inside

Is there a time known for the proceedings to start?

I know that one summons said 10am, which was an hour ago.

I rang the court but all they would say is that all summonses state arrival as 10a.m. Not sure how true that is. They wouldn't say whether the case was listed 1st,2nd, etc. Not helpful at all.

My thoughts are with Tom today. I hope he had a good nights sleep allowing him to be on top form for the proceedings.

Best wishes Tom

They aren't posted online but the times of the cases being heard for the day are posted outside the Magistrates court. All someone need to do is take a stroll down to Westminster....

I think we're covered in that regard.

Started a few hours ago, is my understanding


Tap Tap Tap, what is wanted?

updates from court

The churches legal team are implying that TomP has harassed Judge Rosco and that it is vexatious

The lawyer has also named the Church as the church of Jesus and Latter Day Saints.

He is arguing that judge Rosco guided TP how to do this and therefore was out of jurisdiction

Is Monson or others present?

Nope - No GA's

Thanks.

It seems to me a weak opening defence and one that could offend the court.

I'd think the defendant not even turning up might have offended the court.

If this goes more than 30 minutes it's good. Longer it goes, the better

City worker

It sounds like you are in court. I had intended to come along this morning to observe but have been waylaid. Are you able to say whether it will run over to the afternoon session. If it does I will still come down to London.

Are there any drinks planned for after?

i am not in court but in contact with those that are

there was talk of drinks in covent garden later tonight but not sure if thats still on

i can't make it

Seems people representing church are 6 lawyers

3 lawyers from TomP's side

Much discussion at the moment about vexation and discussions on facebook / mormonthink

Epic troll, dailyworker!

Kudos on a good troll.

Thanks for response. If drinks are planned would be good if details are posted here so that more of us can join the party.

What a lame argument. I bet the judges don't look kindly on one of their own being accused of being weak.

Uh, I think the accusation is stronger than that.

Imo, which is irrelevant, that's a very big gamble. It's stalling.

Suggests to me they are framing the court as "unfriendly". Or maybe I'm overthinking it all

Anyway, Friday night in oz. Super 15, 20/20 vs Sth Africa, 2 x European cycling races, some A league soccer and Fremantle just thrashed Collingwood.

What a night.

This is just cream on a cake

Thanks for all the updates

This is other worldly.

I can't believe what I'm reading, like its a dream.

Today's proceedings:

Church has 6 lawyers present .

Church trying to set aside summons because of service irregularities .. Spent 30 mins arguing this .

Then church lawyer spent 10 mins saying that the claims are teachings -- not beliefs.

10:43 church lawyer trying to discredit Philips , saying he repeatedly correspond ed with court trying to persuade court to issue summons , judge refused this a few times through late 2013 .
Saying Philips complained about judge roscoe

Going through reasons judge originally declined to issue summons
Then judge said Philips had to produce statements from injured parties , church lawyer saying it's wrong that judge advised Philips of this ,,, boos in court !!

Mentioned Ralph's statement then Bloor statements ,, judge observed Bloor should have mentioned WHEN HE WAS DEFRAUDED , church lawyers saying with respect that it's wrong that judge advised Philips how to proceed .

Now ripping into Philips lawyer , trying to say he is wrong on a number of points of law .

Church lawyer saying Philips is mischief ... And not authorized to lay summons .

Lots of arguing minutiae

Church lawyer just wrongly quoted church name ,,, church of the Jesus of the latter days !!!

Keeping arguing it is vexatious saying Philips kept asking for summons and warrant

Now on page 88 !!

Church lawyer keeps referring to Mormon church .

Ooo mormonthink being dissected ,,,,

Referred to it as Philips own site ...

Talking about legal fees , saying it's astonishing that summons is published in mormonthink , saying it shows it's for humiliation of church and vexation .

6000 years , saying a lot of Christian believe this .

Saying the motivation is promoting the crazy beliefs through 80000 missionaries . Church lawyer says this is entitled under un religious freedom human rights .

Saying it is an attack on church scriptures , and designed to harass .

One person shouted in court and judge says he will be asked to leave if he shouts again .

Quoting a lot of internet stuff , saying people want money back . Judge said that's nothing to do with case , church lawyer said it is .

To those who said it will be over in 10 mins , it's now one hour 10 mins

Now continually quoting FB chats , trying to assert that it's a bunch of idiots commentating ,,, saying people just want monson arresting

Dredging through lots of internet speculation ,

3 reporters , 5 exmos and one Tbm in court .

Heart of defence , he is trying to say ... It is civil and not criminal .

Trying to say that the questions of beliefs is not allowed in law .

How can a court possibly embark on judging such issues . Is main issue ... Non justicability

Again saying they are not fact ,, they are belief . Saying nothing is ever said is said as fact just belief !!!!

That's dissed practically every testimony given !!

Now talking about catholic Eucharist !!!

Gay marriage , being diss cussed

You, are a LEGEND

Again saying they are not fact ,, they are belief . Saying nothing is ever said is said as fact just belief !!!!


I will dine in this for years.

Correction: I will FEAST on this for years

Sure, they never say it's facts. They just have all the members say they "know the Church is true" in testimony meetings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2014 08:18AM by Makurosu.

cityworker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today's proceedings:
>
>>
> To those who said it will be over in 10 mins ,
> it's now one hour 10 mins
>

Whatever the outcome, those who have said the Corp would ignore it, that it would be over before it began, etc., here you go.

and its not finished yet!!

that was just the defence stating their case....

On. Edge. Of. Seat.

Thank you for this. Wow, just wow. I would be worried if my lawyer got my name wrong in court. That is precious.

And i thought Monson might have the courage to appear and go all Samuel the lamanite, or even better Alma vs Korihor on their asses.

guess that stuff is only good in a fictitious book

Oh how TSCC has changed over the years. The profit & GAs now hide behind lawyers & apologists. Abinadi would turn in his grave....if he was real.

Again saying they are not fact ,, they are belief . Saying nothing is ever said is said as fact just belief !!!!

Now don't forget, the book of Mormon is more "spiritual" than historical. That's what the church essay said.

And so this, we will FEAST on

Thanks to those there!

I think the freedom of religion card is over stated. IMO this gives people the right to believe whatever they like, to tell people they believe all kinds of stuff, but if you form a corporation and present those beliefs as fact for money then I can't see how that is covered.

Further, I don't see why the biggest claim the church makes, to be the only true church and have authority as the mouthpiece of God on earth isn't challenged, since it is a huge claim. Surely making such a statement is confirmation that this corporation views itself as in sole possession of the correct facts?

And will probably sit up most of the night enjoying it. Thanks to cityworker(not much work being done I guess!!!!)Would love to see full transcripts but this summary is excellent.

I think this case has developed legs and will run for a LONG time.