Considering all the comments from TBMs in the Salt Lake Tribune's article on the UK fraud case wherein they assert that "tithing is voluntary, not mandatory," I thought it would be valuable to start a thread where we can share our experiences. Maybe Eric K. will think that this info is worthy of archiving as evidence to counter the TBMs' assertions.

I have three incidents to relate.

First: I resigned a bishop's counselor in 1989, and quit paying tithing. I didn't accept any other callings after that, and I attended church only to support my wife and kids. I never had any interviews with the bishop for years after that. I never sought for a temple recommend, because I wasn't paying tithing, although at that time I still believed in the church because I didn't know any differently. In 1992, our youngest child was born, and we planned to have him "blessed." We wanted to do it in my mother's ward, which was 350 miles away. So I had to ask the bishop for a recommend in order to perform the ordinance in a faraway ward.

During that time, the bishop was trying to coax me back into full activity. So he was willing to bend over backwards and give me the recommend even though I was only semi-active and not paying tithing. In my short meeting with him, he said "You know Randy, you're a good man and we need you. You could qualify for a temple recommend if you would pay your tithing." I don't remember what my response to him was. It was probably something like "I'll deal with that later, I just want to get my baby blessed right now." So he gave me the recommend, I blessed my baby, and we all resigned from the church about six years later. But the point to my story is that the bishop stated the only thing keeping me from the "blessing" of a temple recommend was the forking over of money.

Incident number two: In the early 1980's, a long-time former bishop and then-current stake patriarch gave a sacrament meeting talk about tithing. He said that when he was bishop, and somebody wanted a temple recommend, but they hadn't been paying tithing, he would require them to pay a given amount as a show of good faith and future commitment. The amount he said that he required was three months' worth of tithing.

Incident number three: About the time we quit believing in the church, one of my TBM older brother's daughters was getting married in a temple. My brother was behind on his tithing, and he told me that his bishop recommended that he pay a certain amount of "back tithing." He told me that he didn't have any money at the time, so he borrowed $3000 on a credit card so he could attend the wedding. He told me this as one TBM talking to whom he believed was another TBM---me. So he didn't have any reservations about telling his story to another "insider."

The most offensive part of this story to me was that my brother had raised eight kids in the church and sent three sons on missions. He was a mechanic, and probably never made more than $50-60k per year in his life. The $3000 tithing he paid was probably six months' worth. His wife had worked as a CNA in nursing homes for years at low wages, in addition to birthing and raising eight kids. But here was this multi-billion-dollar church basically extorting $3000 from him so he could have the privilege of attending his own daughter's wedding.

Well, there's my three incidents. Share 'em if you got 'em.

1. After graduating from BYU, when I was working as a teacher and still a dreaded single adult (credit to the late Deanie for that beautiful description), I had to pay tithing to my "home" ward in order to get a recommend to go to my "singles" ward, because the Bishop of the home ward said that he knew what went on in those singles wards, they were having sex in the closets, they were, and the only thing that would prevent me from having sex, too, was if I paid my tithing to him.

2. I had to pay tithing in order to take out my own endowments, as a single woman, at 27.

3. I had to pay tithing in order to get married, at 30. At each interview, the bishop, the stake president, the temple clerk asked me if I paid a full tithe, if I wore my regulation garment, and if I had any illicit sexual contact with my future spouse. NOT ONCE WAS I ASKED IF I LOVED HIM. Tithing was evidently more important than love.

4. My husband had to pay back tithing in order to see each of his daughters get married. Six months' worth, each time. It took a considerable bite out of our budget.

5. My husband had to pay back tithing to participate in the baptism of our first grandchild.

That all sounds mandatory to me. No tithing, no blessings.

Cult, cult, cult!

Where was that singles ward where they fornicate in the closet?

Voluntary, but made to feel manditory. I haven't paid tithing in over 2 years, and went without a recomend for over a year. Bishop wanted to interview all non temple renewals , told him I wasn't a full tithe payer, he asked me to try, I told him ok, everything else ok he signed a recomend for me as well as the SP. I won't use it unless my sons want me to go along for baptisms, or if my oldest decides to go on a mission in a few years. I won't have to renue for another 18 months or so.

When in a bishopric on two other occasions I would have never issued myself a recomend because I was told if not a full tithe payer, don't give recomend. Something has changed recently.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2014 09:15PM by almost.

A few years ago, when one of the temples in Utah was being dedicated, the church televised the dedication at local stake centers. You had to have a ticket to get it. In order to get a ticket, you had to have an interview with a member of the bishopric. To speed things up, the bishopric interviewed entire families at one time. When it was my family's turn, the bishop took us all into a church classroom and asked us one by one if we paid a full tithing and if we were current on our tithing. That was it, no other questions. That was just to get a ticket to watch a temple dedication on a fuzzy screen while sitting on a folding chair in the gym.

One of our Bishopric members once gave a lesson on tithing. He said it was "just like a bill." You pay your bills at the beginning of the month, tithing is a bill.

I got behind once and was told that if I started paying from that point on I would get my recommend renewed. I didn't have to pay back tithing. I think this bishop was lax about it compared to some I have had.

Another time i needed to see a family member married in the temple, I had to come up with $3,000.00 to get current on my tithing and get a recommend. I figured I paid as much as the family spent on their wedding.

I once was struggling to make ends meet and got behind. To get current I put it on a credit card check. WTH was i thinking? I felt so pressured and guilty that I went in debt to be a full tithe payer. What a sickening cult this is...

Must be voluntary. I never paid a cent...nor was I ever asked about it. After I got my first summer job at 17, all the money was mine...never once did giving 10% to the church enter my mind...nor did Dad suggest I should.

Ron Burr

I went into tithing settlement several years ago with my wife and children present. I had received an inheritance earlier that year and didn't tithe on it. I had, however, tithed the usual amount on my salary. In my mind, I had no intention of paying a tithe on the inheritance, so I just figured I'd be honest and declare partial tithepayer status. The source of the untithed income never entered the discussion. Well, the bishop demanded my temple recommend on the spot. He also demanded my wife's recommend, even though she had no income of her own to tithe on. I had no problem with givingg up my own recommend, but I did defend my wife, and said that she shouldn't have to accept a consequence for my decision. The bishop countered with a policy that said tithing is one of those things where you are in it together. If one spouse doesn't pay a full tithing, its the same as if both spouses haven't paid a full tithing. So I coughed up several thousand dollars and gave it to the church so that my wife could keep her recommend. This was after I had already given several thousand in tithes based on my regular salary. A conversation with my step dad and mother years later introduced me to the idea that spouses are not automatically entitled to inheritances of their partners, in a divorce equation or otherwise. This was a concept I never considered or brought up at the time.

Wow, this really irks me. I think I would have just walked out of his office, or I would have told him to call the Stake President up and the local Area Authority on the phone right there before I would have let him have my wife's recommend. That bishop was totally out of bounds. Too bad that's not as rare as it should be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2014 11:26PM by daniel.

He's full of crap. I was actually told by a bishop that because I don't work I am considered full tithe payer.

Is Mormon tithing tax deductible?

If you itemize.

In Australia we have tithing settlements in June, in line with our July to June financial years.

Last year, in Nov they told us we all had to do settlement again, because we were moving in line with USA financial year settlements.

So poor sucker members did it in June and then December.

But entirely voluntary. Yeah, suuuure

My husband won a new truck worth $20,000. I think the bishop was incredibly jealous. He made sure that hubby knew he wouldn't get his recommend renewed if he didn't tithe on the truck value. Husband went a year without a recommend (also didn't pay on income that year). We moved shortly after that. Started paying again and got a recommend.

I was a new divorcee. My bishop told me that I had to pay on my child support in order to get a recommend. I told him that was illegal, and I could lose my child support if I got caught. He told me I had to pay it anyway.

DH and I were told we had to pay on any profit we had made on house we'd just sold. We thought that was insane. Lucky??? for us that was the first and only house we didn't make any money on. We only lived there for a year, and moved because the ward was full of the worst people we'd ever met.

My stepson was told that he couldn't go on a mission unless he had $10,000 dollars in a savings account. He'd just spent two years in college that he'd paid in full for (at BYU). We put the money in a savings acct. so he could go on a mission. I regret that now.

My 8 year old kids were told that they had to pay tithing for one month before they could get baptized. We gave them a dollar so they could say they paid.

So... are Mormons complete idiots who deserve what they get, or just innocent naive victims?

There had to have been recourse to this. I find that appalling.

An 8 year old being made to pay tithing to get baptized? WTF? I would call that child abuse & extortion. Criminal activity!!!

Ron Burr

Thinking back folks I gotta confess.....I couldn't go on a decent drinking binge with the pittance I ever paid in tithing dollars.

Even as a lad I would always fudge on the Lard.

But I do wish I had that money now, I'd be drunk instead of typing down memory lane.

The executives at COB (that's what I'm calling GAs now) will say that all of these local leaders were acting on their own volition, and not from any direction from COB. This is another reason why the cult doesn't have any real and trained leadership.

It's absolutely mandatory.

You need to look no further than the Law of Consecration in the endowment ceremony to prove that it is not optional.

Do you think that will come up in the trial?

I agree with "almost". It is voluntary (unless you have a nazi bishop), but it is made to feel mandatory.

I don't pay, but I show up to tithing settlement each year, state that I am a full tithe payer and I hold a current TR. The secret is declaring that you are a full tithe payer. I feel perfectly fine not paying anything while at the same time telling them that I give them every penny they deserve. We just don't discuss that my definition of tithing is different from their definition of tithing.

How many bishops has that worked with? I can see that working with some, others I can see giving you some real grief about it.

Voluntary but with consequence.
I was warned not to rob my family of blessings if I didn't pay.

That bishop is/was a butt hole. You can pay on net.

I find these stories intriguing. I don't ever recall being threatened by a bishop concerning tithing. I have just always been told to pay it.

When I was in my 20's I worked for a family member (odd jobs). The family member told me if I paid tithing on the money she gave me she wouldn't hire me again. I was a college student so the jobs and money were good. Stuck in a dilemna, I went to my bishop at the time and bared my soul. He told me to do my best. And, he never mentioned it to me again. In fact, I remember him being quite nice about it.

I would presume each bishop deals with it in his own way. It sounds like some of you folks get the shaft.

I had just moved into a new ward and didn't know any one. I was not a full-tithe payer. Sorry, I had to pay my bills and that came first over tithing! I guess I never was tbm enough after all ;)

Went to the bishop for help and say that we were not "full" tithe payers. We paid what we could, but not 10%. He would not help us with food until we were "full" tithe payers. Suggested that we pay our full tithing and come back in a few months to see "where we were then"

All I asked was for help from the ward for a week or two until we get back on our feet. I think all the tithe money I paid in my life since I was 8 would be enough for a few bags of rice, but apparently not.

Someone my Mom knew was dying and the bishop was by his side giving him a priesthood blessing. The elderly man asked the bishop if he would go to heaven. The bishop said, "only if you are paid up on your tithing" which he wasn't. But the family and friends took up a collection to pay the back tithing so the old man could die in peace.

That was pretty voluntary, now wasn't it?

jerk.

Went through a stint of unemployment-asked bish if we should pay on it, told us it was totally and completely up to us. We didn't as we needed it more than the church.

Fast forward..moved. Still unemployed, new bish literally pulled us out of class to come to his office and it was all a guilt trip about not paying on unemployment money and we must because HE 'needed us'. So, we complied, reluctantly, suffered.

My father raised us to believe in tithe paying. I never saw the blessings. We had to pay on our birthday money, graduation money, job money, etc. I remember always being mad because I had to give up 10% of my birthday money and always felt it wasn't fair.

I never saw the "blessings" of tithes. I think the "blessings" came from my own knowledge of how to budget in crap times and stick to it. :)

I was married to a non member who was unemployed. I was working the for barely more than minimum wage but it was enough to pay the rent. Groceries were an extra expense we just couldn't afford. At the time I was still semi TBM and was faithfully serving my calling as sunday school teacher. I went to the bishop to see about getting some help with food. The two conditions he gave me were pay my tithing and get my never mo husband to take the discussions.

most tithing is tithed 10 times before being saved
just incredible, some of the stories
few of them funny

I always hated paying tithing
No wonder and we can see why
Grew up being taught it was 10+%
"Surplus", voluntary, 2%, personal
$ pried, pulled, tugged, grabbed, and taken
from ordinary citizens and to feed fat cats

TCSS uses it's people
to fish for more people
false promises are the bait
as fish, we collectively get smarter
as long as we are not hungry or dumb

one quick story: payed a little in the youth, hadn't payed much, if any, in adulthood in many years. A while back, when I figured I was getting out anyway, I thought I would try to tithe (that was the last time meeting with the bishop - more on that later). Took some cash out of the wallet, thought and counted, filed out the blanks and put the in the envelope, licked, and handed to the bishop. Later I noticed I still had about the same amount of $. A few weeks later, walking through the foyer, I asked him if I had inserted $. He says, well, lets look. He had the sealed envelope in his suit pocket, took it out and opened it and said it's empty (we laughed), just like TSCC.

So, never been much of a fool tithe payer
Pay yourself - you are # 1, eternally, forever



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2014 03:06AM by moremany.

Let's be clear, tithing is NOT voluntary. At the baptismal interview, if you state that you do not intend to pay tithing you will not be baptised and therefore saved.

At a temple recommend interview if I state I have not nor do I intend to pay tithing I will not be given a temple recommend. Therefore I can't go to the temple.

The church teaches that without baptism and temple ordinances I would be dawned and suffer eternally as a result.

These interviews happen after months or years of being taught that the church is absolutely categorically true by parents or missionaries to the point where you are conditioned to believe it and your emotions are hijacked.

All we need to prove this are a few people with the courage to sit temple recommend interviews and record them oon audio asking for a recommend and failing that single tithing question. The bishop will likely give the pay tithing lecture. That on tape would be useful in court for Tom phillips if he doesn't already have it.

Who hasn't heard -

Do I pay on gross or net income? "Do you want gross or net blessings?"

"Be grateful the Lord is so generous he lets you keep 90% of your money"

etc etc