The day my son was to be set apart for a mission he was called in by a councilor in the state pres (our former bishop) and grilled about tithing. After the interview he came home and told my wife he was being required to to pay several hundred dollars. Because he was 19 and a normal kid that likes to have fun he did not have the money though he did have a job. So - my wife I paid up for him though we had just paid a lot for suits and were about to start forking over monthly payments etc. We paid so there would be no question about him being able to go on a mission, and because this all happened the afternoon before his setting apart (leave the next day). It was extortion and for our sons sake we put on the happy face.

Also wanted to note that we had tithing issues with him (former bishop) before.


Yes, absolutely, the Mormon church is PAY TO PLAY!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2014 10:07AM by perky.

You paid extortion so your son could go on a mission????? What were you thinking???? That would have been an excellent time to sit your son down for a talk along the lines of "what is wrong with this picture?". At age 19 I would think he's ready to be weaned from drinking the Mormon Kool Aid.

Bet you a pink Kool-Aid that you aren't the only one extorted for tithing under that Bish!

Tell the bish to give it back or you go to the newspapers. Since he already sent the money to SLC he would have to pay you back from his own pocket. Give him a taste of his own BS

So, your son is such a TBM that he wants to go on a mission to convert (defraud) others into joining the church and paying tithing, but not enough of a TBM to have kept up his own tithing in spite of living at home and having few, if any bills. He had no rent, no utilities, all food paid; yet is going to feel good about pressuring poor people to pay 10% of their gross income to the church before they feed their children or pay their rent. Good one.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. But maybe he needs to realize what he needs is some harsh words not to be bailed out.

Well, he was 18/19 yrs old, not the most insightful age, so I give him a pass on that one.

I wouldn't be so hard on the OP, who is posting a sensitive personal account that just happens to be even more topical at the moment, when the Mormon Church has just declared in open court (if I've read the court accounts correctly) that "tithing is optional".

I think the important detail in the OP's outline is that it happened THE DAY his son was due to be set apart, hardly the time a TBM (or TBM-appearing) family would mount an argument against the bishop, who has the power to deny the missionary's trip to the MTC at the drop of a hat.

I don't think people post their personal stories here to be told off by other posters who have appointed themselves judge, jury and executioner over somebody else's Mormon journey. So, I wouldn't be so quick to denounce a poster, whether they are still attending or left eons ago. It can be difficult to write up our personal accounts and float them out there. What incentive do people have to do so if they think they're going to get reamed for their actions in a past life?

Just as I dislike being told how stupid I am for being a "convert" to Mormonism, so I imagine a former BIC wouldn't enjoy being the object of a tirade about their actions just because some exmos are so ticked off at Mormonism.

Hey, we all live and learn, and none of us know the circumstances of someone else's life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2014 10:32AM by Nightingale.

I do agree with you to a point. But sometimes we can make the mistake of blaming others for our own actions just a little too much. Not saying that I know all of the OP's motivations at that point in time. I might very well have done exactly the same thing and helped my son out and paid his back tithing. Just pointing out (probably not very well) that the kid probably shouldn't be trying to get others to pay tithing when he doesn't pay it himself.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I wouldn't be so hard on the OP, who is posting a
> sensitive personal account that just happens to be
> even more topical at the moment, when the Mormon
> Church has just declared in open court (if I've
> read the court accounts correctly) that "tithing
> is optional".
>
> I think the important detail in the OP's outline
> is that it happened THE DAY his son was due to be
> set apart, hardly the time a TBM (or
> TBM-appearing) family would mount an argument
> against the bishop, who has the power to deny the
> missionary's trip to the MTC at the drop of a
> hat.
>
> I don't think people post their personal stories
> here to be told off by other posters who have
> appointed themselves judge, jury and executioner
> over somebody else's Mormon journey. So, I
> wouldn't be so quick to denounce a poster, whether
> they are still attending or left eons ago. It can
> be difficult to write up our personal accounts and
> float them out there. What incentive do people
> have to do so if they think they're going to get
> reamed for their actions in a past life?
>
> Just as I dislike being told how stupid I am for
> being a "convert" to Mormonism, so I imagine a
> former BIC wouldn't enjoy being the object of a
> tirade about their actions just because some exmos
> are so ticked off at Mormonism.
>
> Hey, we all live and learn, and none of us know
> the circumstances of someone else's life.

Thank you for posting this. I think most of us did things when we were TBM that were "normal" for a TBM person and even if not TBM, many will support their family members out of kindness even if they don't agree with what they are doing. I think most of us are here for recovery and support, not to have our past actions scrutinized.

Thanks for the note. This happened several years ago. I was just jumping on the church is pay to play band wagon.

I agree, O Sofia.

I think that does it...

...I'm certain I've now heard it all!!

Holy S#&$*!!

How is the $10,000 beings spent over the next 2 years on the mission, not OVERPAYING his tithing?

And they are quibbling over a couple hundered extra bucks.

Pharisees!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2014 10:24AM by 8thgeneration.

Agreed. He should have told them to go #%(& themselves. I hope my son never decides to go on mission. He's still young, but my TBM wife if working hard on the brainwashing.

Wow. I wish I could say this is surprising. But it's not. But still.... Wow.

Thank God that I successfully persuaded my son not to go on a mission!

I hate to ask because I already suspect what the answer is:

"Is paying for a mission tithing deductible?"

In other words, in addition to paying $10K for a mission, do LDS parents have to pay full tithing, too?

What happens if you had two or three kids out on a mission at once? You would go broke!

Missions are not "tithing deductible". You can't even exclude the cost from your gross income calculation from tithing. So, yes, if you have two or more children out on a mission and they didn't overwork themselves to earn enough to pay their own way, the parents go broke.

It is all about the money.

Spot on. At one point I had two siblings both on missions in central america. My parents were paying the full cost of both missions (which far exceeded their actual expenses in that part of the world), AND 10% gross tithing. I mean, the amount of money they were giving the church was closer to half their take-home than it was to nothing.

And what did the cult do to thank them for all that money? They spent it all on a shopping mall and didn't have any left over to hire a janitor. So my parents went and scrubbed the toilets.

My second son isn't going, but at the time it seemed like the righ thing to do for my other son.

You didn't HAVE to pay your son's tithing. It was a choice that you made, and in my humble opinion it was a bad choice.

If I were in your shoes here is what I would have done.

Have an in person meeting with the Bishop.
Tell him this: my son is about to be an unpaid salesman for the church for two years. He will pay his own travel and living expenses. And you have the audacity to try to extort money from him up-front?

That will not happen. He will NOT be paying any tithing money so he can go on a mission. If that is not okay with you then cancel his mission call. That will save him tens of thousands of dollars and allow him to do something useful with his time, namely go to university.

I had four sons who went on missions and I paid ---- nothing. Don't know who paid, but even as a card-carrying member I did not support it.

I'm gonna start a biz where I get my sales force to pay ME.

Also, I'm gonna make a deal with the gov so that I don't pay any of those pesky taxes.

And, I'm gonna make the families of my sales people kick in an extra 10% of their own annual income, just to make sure I don't fire these lazy-ass sales people.

I should be able to make a fuckin' fortune off these sheeple...

Be sure to have your "employees" "volunteer" to do all the
janitorial work to keep your overhead down.

Yes, but remember janitorial work is so limited, seeing as it's tied to actual facilities. It's truly brilliant to have your employees indexing so you can resell their work for profit. There must be some other doctrine that can be turned into piece-work that can be performed for free and sold for money, even if you've got to own the for-profit business that buys it. Like that church-owned ag business that used members as migrant-workers and sold the production for profit. When you use a tax-exempt, First Amendment protected church as a money-laundering scheme, the possibilities are endless.

I've got it. Since you're preparing for the second coming, and no janitors understand like yours do that they're preparing the way for Jesus, convince your janitors that Jesus will take over the big, institutional buildings first, or the hotels for the coming gathering. Jesus would want only saint-cleaned toilets, then contract out your free-labor janitors to other businesses.

"When you use a tax-exempt, First Amendment protected church as a money-laundering scheme, the possibilities are endless."

I think you just won "Quote of the day."

Well OP, you have identified a case in mormonism where those with money have a greater chance of salvation than those without.

Think about it. If your son didn't have parents who were both able and willing to pay the price (with real money) for his past 'sins', he would have been unworthy to serve a mission (or in other words, with sin).

You literally *bought* his cleansing from sin. Way to go morg, you've invented a world where the rich are at an advantage for salvation.

Great insight. Its all about the cash flow. I was so mad about it my wife wanted to medicate me before the setting apart!

When the guy was our bishop he insinuated my wife was trying to steal money from the ward budget because she turned in a request for repayment for scouts without a receipt.

As a salesman, mishies should be paid at least a living wage, perhaps more as a bonus for bringing in more money/ people.

How about a commission? That would generate sales activity!

Huh. Doesn't the church teach that tithing is for the benefit of the tithe-payer, to grow and progress and learn what is needed for exaltation, and NOT because the church needs the money? Yet here the emphasis is not on the actual tithe payer. The emphasis is totally on the church receiving the money, even though from another person (parents).

So it IS really all about the money. I don't know that we teach that..

I don't exactly recall, but I'm fairly certain I paid tithing on the money that I earned for my mission. Pretty stupid considering that all that money went towards working for the cult full-time, for free.

This is purely and completely EXTORTION!

One word! Extortion!! The morg is wealthy compared to most rank and file members!! They could pay for tons of missions but rather have the rank and file members pay for it instead!!

So much about the money! What happened to Jesus Christ?

Sorry you did that. Do you feel badly now. It is extortion. It is not right by any stretch of the imagination. I am sure JC would be appalled.

What a power trip. So frustrating. My husband was a convert and when we were waiting the year to get married in the temple, his bishop