Not sure if i can post this......So I have been looking at anti-cult websites and have been reading a book on cults. When u read the definitions of a cult the TSCC fits a good amount of the requirments to be one... however It seems the only groups I find that clasify the LDS church as a cult are Evangelical groups who produce mis leading Information about the church...which I dont get...I dont think you need to lie to dis proove the church. And gives ammo to TBM'S Who then claim all sites critical of the church are the same way. So can the TSCC truly be considered a New Age Religion aka Cult? e

As with most stuff, it all depends on what meaning you pour into the term.

Much of this is controversial, but to my thinking there is no doubt Mormonism is a cult.

Some argue Christianity was/is a cult. I get it. But when I look at Steven Hassan's BITE model or look at Dr. Steve Eichel's checklist, I see so many commonalities with Mormonism. And to my knowledge (I could be wrong) neither view was developed with Mormonism specifically in mind.

I wouldn't say the TSCC is a cult.

I call it cult-lite, or Diet Cult.

All the flavor but no calories

The term "Cult" is arguable. It certainly looks like one to me, but the definition is not really set in stone and your mileage may vary....The above mentioned sources look pretty credible..It is like what the Supreme Court said about the definition of pornography, "you know it when you see it".

Hi Can'tresign,

Yes. One common definition of a non-Christian cult is this, and the LDS faith fits it well:


A sect or group of strong believers that:

1) Has an outspoken, charismatic founder who made claims of exclusive visits with God or Angels

2) Denies the cardinal doctrines of the orthodox, bible-believing, mainstream faiths......The diety of Jesus Christ, the concept of the Trinity, Grace alone for salvation, Man is a natural born sinner through no fault of his own, etc...

3) Hold the belief that their system is the ONLY true church, the only true authorized way to salvation.

With all the thought control, mindlessly obeying priesthood leaders, mandatory tithing (for salvation), zero financial transparency, spying on members (SCMC), no questioning leaders, "prophet speaks the debate is over" mentality, secret handshakes/passwords, getting absolutely nothing in return for time/money, GAs getting rich from members' sacrifice, and invading privacy; yes, it's a cult.

Everyone has their own definition of cult apparently, so expecting it to be considered that across the board is difficult.

What it boils down to for me is, you are expected as a Mormon to accept the church over your own thinking and gut feelings. This says cult.

And any church that actually brags, "Once the prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done," is a cult. I don't need any more evidence than that one phrase. Says it all.

That phrase occurs thousands of times on lds.org:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Obedience+is+the+first+law+of+heaven.%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs#channel=rcs&q=site%3Alds.org+%22Obedience+is+the+first+law+of+heaven.%22&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&safe=active&start=0


And, of course, for Mormons, "obedience" means obeying their leaders above their own scriptures--or even their own conscience.

I'm not evangelical.

It is a mind control cult.

while there are always misinformed and wacky people in ANY demographic (including this board), most Christian groups that provide information on Mormonism and consider it to be a cult, base that on facts and not lies as you mention.

Furthermore, Christians consider any group that bases its beliefs on a person or writings other than the Bible and Jesus to be a cult. (That definition can be expanded upon of course, ie, those groups who depart from orthodoxy are considered cults).

My definition of a cult (currently)

They teach an us vs. them mentality. They teach their members to see unbelievers as being less deserving of human dignity and respect. You identify a cult by their teachings regarding "apostates".

The mormon church is a cult with a better than average Public Relations department that keeps the image polished and acceptable to the rest of the world.

It's the PR that makes it seem ok.

I have also noticed if I make even the slightest suggestion to a TBM of the church being a cult they loose their minds and thr name calling starts. I just wish this church would die off. But it keeps growing :( im loosing friends, family relationship not the same. Mormons are right, I cant let go. It pisses me off. I have been reading steven hassans book. But he never mentions mormonism. Which I dont get. He mentions JW's quite a bit, and its much smaller and has little to no effect over the general population. Mormonism is poisoning society with its anti gay crap.

Defining a church as a cult because they dont have the same beliefs as their church is completely mis leading and makes think they are a cult. Evangelical denominations are just as wacky as mormon sects in their teachings. The only reason evangelicals and the christian coalition consider mormonism as a cult is because they are loosing members to the LDS sect....and money. They are just as hyppocritical and just as non christ like as mormon cult leaders.

Can you list "evangelical denominations?" Or perhaps your definition of the term? I am a Christian and consider myself an evangelical. I am happy in any church that sticks to orthodoxy. I couldn't care less where people spend their money nor where their "membership" is but false belief deserves to be debunked.

Just out of interest can you name any essential evangelical belief that is different from mainstream Christian belief?

You're mistaken about evangelical churches, many of which are nondenominational, losing members and money to the LDS. Nondenoms are the fast growing group among Christian churches in the States, (I'm not a member of one), and they're putting a bite into many traditional churches. Nondenominational churches are invariably evangelical, but not all evangelical churches are nondenominational. Both have some extremist congregations though.

Evangelicals share one commonality- the belief that the Bible is literal. Tscc has become a particular target for evangelicals because JS, BOM and mormon teachings are viewed as heresies. In particular the doctrine of JS sitting in judgement with Christ and Heavenly Father is very problematic. Mormons call other Christians "gentiles" and their churches "abominations", except for the Roman Catholic Church who JS and followers call "the Great Whore of Babylon." Of course mormons believe only they will ascend to the celestial kingdom and be will exalted; the rest of us, even the Mother Teresas, best be happy with terrestrial kingdom. No modern church proselytizes like tscc does. Considering the mormon disdain for every other faith and the constant efforts to convert members of other churches, if the evangelicals want to take swipes at tscc & JS, seems like justice. Any hand wringing over "persecution" is hypocritical.

But your question is about how much of a cult is tscc. I see the answer like this: if a Southern Baptist leaves to join the
Episcopal church, no one threatens him or her with the loss of salvation; if a Methodist joins a nondenominational church, it's very unlikely he or she will be subject to primitive shunning by his or her own family or that he or she might lose family members or employment because of the change. Not so with mormons. And from that perspective, yes, it is cultish.

Only by people who use the term loosly :)

It doesn't meet Lifton's eight criteria, or Singer's six conditions. It matches one or two of them.

However as has been pointed out, cults are so incredibly destructive, that if your organization shares even one or two characteristics with them, you should ask questions.

Eric3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only by people who use the term loosly :)
>
> It doesn't meet Lifton's eight criteria, or
> Singer's six conditions. It matches one or two of
> them.
>

I see Singer as more about defining thought control than cults.

As for Lifton, I'd be very interested in which of his eight criteria you think don't apply to Mormonism. I think they all to to at least some degree:

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

...not for defining a cult, per se.

Watch this and decide for yourself


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfb5FYd83Ao

If Mormonism is not a cult, I don't know what is.

So, I just skimmed Lifton's eight criteria and Singer's six conditions and it seems to hit on just about every one of Lifton's and most of Singer's imo.

There's no need to "recover" from leaving a garden club or bird watcher group but it's usually difficult to leave and recover from mormonism.

In order to be what's considered a proper Mormon, you have to integrate it completely into your life. Obedience is demanded, and dissent is considered wrong. Just those things alone make it culty. Anything else is just frosting on the cake.

Great video Jake. Thanks!

I can tell you that most of the academic groups that study and write about cults do not have official lists of groups.

This is because many of them found themselves the target of litigation which was extremely burdensome to non-profit associations, and difficult for the unpaid administrators as well.

That said, if you attend any meetings or conferences and speak informally with any known academics about cult groups, there is not the slightest question about mormonism as a cult.

Just show me any other respected religion that has a missionary program which "breaks" a young man so that afterwards he may qualify for leadership, being actually referred to as "church broke."

A cult describes the methods used to gain and keep adherents. The People's Church used abusive methods and that what made them a cult-- nobody knows what their doctrine was and nobody cares.

Same about Mormonism. You can believe anything you please, but when you tell lies to get people to join, then make them pledge everything they own and everything they will own, including their time and talents to your organization, you cross the line.

Mormonism uses the freedom of religion culture here in America to abuse people's desire to please God for the purposes of exploitation.

Then they hold their families ransom in the hereafter if they fail to obey/comply. Mormonism demands back unpaid tithing as the price for witnessing your grown children's marriage in the temple.

This is not a voluntary contribution and it is a loophole in the law that lets them get away with it.

You can have lists of characteristics of a cult, but in the end, a group which controls your thinking and your opportunity to consider other points of view, separates you from the critical thinking ability of your own mind, then your own conscience and finally from your loved ones is certainly suspect.

The idea that we can perform atrocities here on earth on command for the payment of a better deal in the hereafter...

is called Islam in the East and
Mormonism in the West.



Anagrammy

PS. Why isn't anyone asking if Islam is a cult?

Yes.

People who are not Mormons (and/or don't even know any Mormons), who happen to study Mormonism and then look over any of the commonly used lists of the attributes of "cults" or destructive organizations, do consider Mormonism to match those attributes.

is a strong clue right there

Well said Anagrammy!

Jerry64 is also spot on. See my post here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1090947,1090947#msg-1090947

it fits all the descriptions and flashes the warning signs I remember from course work in high school and college sociology and psychology classes...

also, ask yourself, what other church cares what sort of underwear you have? That's one very intimate and sure sign of control.

I certainly consider Mormonism to be a cult. Of all the psuedo-Christian American sects that came out in the 1800s "wild west" days, Mormonism is without doubt the craziest, with the highest number of bizarre tenets and laughably insane doctrines.

My response to this is that if the shoe fits, and fits well, it must be yours.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it is a duck. YES IT IS A CULT CULT CULT CULT. A scary CULT at that doing tons of damage every hour of every day. They are akin to Nazis in the amount of damage they do IMHO.

Is Scientology a CULT? I mean really....what do you think? (start the psycho shower scene music here at full volume!)

Everyone knows Islam is a CULT, Nazism is a cult, and so is Mo-ism.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2014 06:32PM by verilyverily.

When I found myself chanting in unison "pay, lay, ale" in a room full of people (men separate from women) all of us wearing outrageous costumes, after having begun my day naked in a small room (only covered by an open sheath) with an old man I had never met, who touched me underneath it (in the "appropriate" places, of course) it should have screamed "CULT" to me. And that was only the beginning. I was required to symbolically slit my throat and disembowel myself along with everyone else, before even getting to all of the secret handshakes and passwords.

How many other religions require such things that are NOT considered a cult?

Yeah, that was sort of a hint to me too.

Pagans: you Jews are a dangerous CULT!
Jews: you Christians are a dangerous CULT!
Christians: you Mormons are a dangerous CULT!
Mormons: you ex-mos are just plain DANGEROUS!

Dangerous to what? To our cash flow!

Lets see.
1. Go to vetted-member only location, dress up in robes, chant in circle.

yep its a cult.

Non-cult organizations have transparent finances.

1. Mormonism is a cult.
2. The term evangelical merely means the group believes in "spreading the gospel".
3. There are people whether evangelical or not who have odd cult-like ideas and many who do not follow cultlike ideas.
4. Note that cults are strongly on a "us" vs. "them" kick and also have odd rules such as clothing and special secret rites.

Depends on your definition...as you can see. Doesn't have to be Jonestown or Comet Hale-Bopp worshipers to be a cult. I choose the definition that says Mormonism is a cult.