So disheartening to hear the summons dismissal! However, the victory is still ours. The Brethren are on notice; any future explicit claims to the truth will be duly prosecuted. The negative PR for the church from this case is victory enough. But wait, there's more...

An initial reading of the verdict suggests the merits of the case lacked specific evidence against TSM. We know he has been very circumspect in his testimony for many years. But what of the Twelve? There must be many specific examples of claims and testimonies from these guys that can be proven false. Why not resubmit a complaint naming all the major church leaders?

Also, a promising Plan B would be to pursue a criminal complaint against the church for the tax evasion practices of its mission presidents. It would appear the culpability there is quite explicit, and much more easily prosecuted. The attention and negative PR in such an action would easily surpass that seen here recently.

There must be many other avenues of avarice we can chase these crooks through. Come on, let's give Tom Phillips a huge THANK YOU, and encourage his and our further efforts.

I was always told if you fall off a horse you get back on it.

I don't believe Tom Phillips is a quitter.

This is a fifteen-round heavyweight bout and we have only just heard the bell at the end of the first round.

If you think Tom Phillips will be battered and bruised along the way, he won't be the only one with a bloodied nose.

In the words of the old joke:
"If you think my face looks bad, you wanna take a look at the other guy!"

Yes, the morg is still as guilty of fraud as they were two hours ago. That has not been changed a bit by these most recent events.

Just talked with Tom P - yes, there is definitely a Plan B in the works.

Well then I wish the best of luck to him!

I join in giving Tom a huge Thank You.

IF he chooses to pursue further action against the cult, I'd be with him.

But if he chose to simply enjoy his life as a non-mormon and be a man who speaks the truth, I'd be quite glad for him.

He's helped some people by publicizing the bizarre mormon beliefs. Publicizing the truth is winning!

He can probably try this in a different country, or try it again in the UK with adjustments made to remove/change the things that it failed on this time.

Remember when romney soundly won the first debate with Obama?

I'm not sure if I remember that . . . please proceed.

Even if one takes the position that the church won this battle, they are clearly losing the war. They have drafted their last and youngest army. And just as youth and inexperience can be detrimental to poorly trained soldiers, missionaries are being 'spiritually slaughtered' once they venture from the shelter of their families and church.

I had a couple of boy-faced missionaries in my home last weekend, neither of them even 19 years old. As they unfolded their 'first discussion', I saw so very many opportunities to swoop down and decimate their claims. At the last moment, I held back as I thought of their apparent sincerity. Even though their teachings were untruths, they believed they were teaching truth. "The best liar is the one who believes he is telling the truth". I have teenage children, and I thought of their parents. Would I want to see my child crushed and brought low like that? In the end, I did ask a few pointed questions to provoke critical thinking but never delivered the decisive death blow.

Was I weak? Did they deserve 'truth's wrath'? On reflection, I guess I despise the church and want to see it destroyed, but when I see individual members just trying to live by their precepts I soften my stance. Just as post-WWII learned to love Germans while hating Germany, I still love the Mormon people while hating their church.

I think adam and eve should be left out of the equation. The falsity of the book of Mormon and the book of Abraham should be on trial here. Those are demonstrably false and it can be proven that the church knows they are false. Adam and eve affects too many other religions, and including them is tantamount to putting all other christian religions on trial.

I agree. I think tom shot himself in the foot when he put mainstream religious beliefs on trial, like Adam and Eve and the earth being 6000 years old.

He should have stuck to things unique to Mormonism, like the book of Abraham And the rock in the hat and focused more on the requirement of tithing.

Not just Christian religions but also Judaism on trial since Genesis is part of the Torah and the Tanach (Hebrew Scriptures). Yes, too broad to include.

I agree with the others who have posted saying that the case should have been exclusively Mormon-specific. One cited as an example the Book of Abraham which is sold by the Church with claims for it that are demonstratively false.

I guess I am just missing the point of going up against the church on such technical issues.

Probably the best thing is to comment to articles, be sure and mention Tom being made a God by the very people who are saying he's just some disgruntled old member. Bring up the weird stuff from the BOA, like the fact that Tom would have been given his own kokaubeam that circled Kolob. There is plenty of great openings into mormon discussions here. Just for fun if nothing else.

Who cares about what the TBMs think? They are true BELIEVING mormons, ferchrissake. They are seen as total idiots to most of the world. Bring that fact out. Make sure the world knows what these things are that they have to accept in order to fully participate in their church. And what happens to guys like Tom who make it to the absolute top and then ask questions.

If you are not already, click to follow Peggy Fletcher Stack on Facebook and comment on her article she just put in the SL Tribune. Comment on the FB post AND the Trib page. Be SURE and mention the second anointing. Most of these TBMs posting comments still have not heard that part of the Tom Phillips story.

Peggy Fletcher Stack is deleting most non pro-mormon comments to her story. Even when they are on topic of the outcome of the trial. If you mention that it was a criminal trial, not a civil one and that the court did NOT prove that Tommy is not a fraudster, only that there was not enough evidence to proceed, you'll get cut off. Is she mormon? If so, looks like she was threatened.

One of the reasons givien for dismissal was that there was not evidence to tie Monson personally and directly to Church teachings which are factually untrue.

This, along with the recent insightful analysis by TruthIsReason, could have a greater impact than non dismissal of the case might have had.

A TBM testimony is immune to just about every conceivable assault. However, the fact that Monson HIMSELF does not appear to believe should be devastating! How can you not question the Church if the very man that God has called to lead it does not believe? "Follow the Prophet"?

The analysis by TruthIsReason should be tied to statements and articles about this case. Monson (appears) to have made his prosecution difficult by his lack of testimony bearing since 2005 on the unique claims of Mormonism. He used to testify strongly about Mormon claims. He continues to testify strongly of Christ and God, but since 2005 there has been an undeniable change pertaining to Mormon claims. This is actually good evidence that he either knows or strongly suspects that Mormonism is false. i.e. He has been perpetrating a fraud. There has to be a good reason for his lack of testifying. The only possibilities I can see that have not been ruled out are that; 1. He does not believe. 2. The corporation restricted his statements for liability purposes. (they know the truth) Either way, it is evidence of fraud. As sole head of the corporation, Monson is responsible. His slippery statements only help to prove the fraud.

Probably every Christian has heard; "If you were to be prosecuted for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?" The world needs to hear; "Judge rules there is not enough evidence to convict Thomas Monson of being a Mormon" If the analysis by TruthIsReason was not right on, FAIR would have been able to come up with something better than their pathetic and dishonest attempt.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/213378803/Correcting-FAIR-and-Looking-Empirically-at-Monson-s-Testimonies



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2014 01:28PM by jebus.

I have seen a few testimonies by him within the last 5 years. Not sure why 5 years is the magic number.

"With other latter-day prophets, I testify of the truthfulness of this “most correct of any book on earth,” even the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ. Its message spans the earth and brings its readers to a knowledge of the truth. It is my testimony that the Book of Mormon changes lives."
(Thomas S. Monson, Liahona Oct 2011)

"How good it is, my beloved brothers and sisters, to meet together once again. This conference marks 180 years since the Church was organized. How grateful we are for the Prophet Joseph Smith, who sought for the truth, who found it, and who, under the direction of the Lord, restored the gospel and organized the Church." April 2010

"Yes, our Heavenly Father does answer prayers, in His own time and in His own way. I bear an apostolic witness that Jesus is the Savior of the world and that He and His Father appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith to usher in this dispensation of the fulness of times, and so declare in His holy name, the name of Jesus Christ, amen." (Monson, Special witness of Christ 2010)

anonow;

It's not 5 years, it is since TSM quit bearing strong testimony in General Conference of unique Mormon claims... 2005

You should read the actual essay;
http://www.scribd.com/doc/159313089/Monson-s-Refusal-to-Testify

Unless you spend the time to follow along and understand what TruthIsReason is saying, the quotes like those you gave, seem to stand for more than they actually do.

He looks at General Conference addresses, and discusses the reasons why Ensign articles (your 1st quote) are not counted in his analysis. Sometimes the GA's don't actually write their own articles, and sometimes, (your reference) the article is a reprint of a prior article. The original of your first reference was published prior to 2005. As with this one, it is not unusual to recycle the First Presidency Message.

Your #2 is not an example of bearing testimony. He discusses this at length in his essay.

Your #3 is not a conference address, it is a video compiled in 2010 but the footage is from earlier than that. Again, please read the essay for his discussion on why we would expect the prophet to bear testimony of Joseph Smith, BOM, and the restoration in conference, and how TSM is no longer doing that.

There was a very real change in TSM's testimony bearing in 2005. There are many examples (like yours) in the FAIR rebuttal, that do not refute that. It does take some reading though to understand what the claim is. If you think you have found something after reading and understanding his link, let us all know.

Just one question. Even if they are reprints or reruns of things said earlier, why would he allow them to be reprinted or put forth again more recently, if he did not believe what he was saying the first time?

One can only guess what is going on in his mind, and to what extent he thinks this all out. He seems to be someplace between actually believing it fully and being willing to come right out and deny it. It would raise a lot of questions that he is trying to avoid if he were to ask that his previous statements be amended. Just like many of us went through a phase of letting people believe we were still on board, the same must be true with him. He is not comfortable telling an outright lie, but does not mind saying things that he knows will interpreted as a testimony. Letting previous writings and videos be published is similar. It isn't a lie because when he said it, he did believe.

You've made it all the way to the top. You are now The prophet, seer and revelator for the whole of the church, and, indeed for all of humanity. Yet, you don't feel any different. God doesn't talk to you. Jesus doesn't talk to you. Something is wrong here...

Please post this on the comments for the articles. It is a great point.

I'm betting that american mormon politicians put the pressure on the british government.

The fix was in.

I hope there's more fallout to come, because at this point all it has done is strengthen the resolve of every Mormon I have seen on the internet today. They feel stronger now than they did before the case was brought.

So many "knew" HF would prevail and this would be thrown out. And, whaddya know, it was.

I don't have a lot of time to read everything that's being written (several threads here already) so a TL;DR would be great.