Does anyone else suspect active TBM leadership trolls sites such as RfM to get info? I mean if they had half a brain it'd be smart to find out what is pulling members away. But if they're authentic believers they may not go anywhere near "anti" in case satan gets his paws on them. What do you guys think?

Daniel Peterson has been asked to leave more than once.

Damn right they're reading your every evil keystroke.

Interesting story about Daniel Peterson BTW. My TBM mother had him as a professor long ago and went to Israel with one of his groups--twice if I am not mistaken. When I left the Church she asked Daniel Peterson to answer some of my questions. He agreed so I sent him the following:

"Professor Peterson,

First off I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to my mother and agree to hear and respond to some of my questions. Although I have advised against it, my mother is holding out hope that I am only going through a phase of disbelief and that with the right answers, I might find a reason to believe in a god again. I do believe she is hoping in vain but I expected her to react this way and I do not blame her for it.

I have plenty of doubts many of which cannot truly be answered except on the premise of faith, which I find to be a rather inutile tool for finding truth. Belief without evidence does not bring us any closer to finding real Truth but instead reveals a personal truth that is satisfactory to us and us alone. Every other faith tradition since the dawn of time has had to accept truth on faith. It goes without saying that from an LDS perspective, 99.9% of those beliefs accepted on faith were in fact false.

The common answer I receive when I voice these doubts is that I need to rely on the spirit to confirm truth. Once upon a time, not too long ago, I knew I had received spiritual confirmations of what was true. The problem with this idea is that I had been conditioned my entire life to believe that certain feelings and emotions were manifestations of the spirit, when in fact they were probably just physiological and neurological reactions to unique circumstances, events and previous experiences. I cannot accept the idea that the only way I can differentiate between what is true and false is through a "burning in my bosom". This method of truth seeking has been proven unsuccessful seeing as how “the spirit” has confirmed contradictory “truths” to all faith groups throughout time.

That brings me to my first real question. Without relying on blind faith or subjective “revelations” from the sprit, how do I discover real, unalterable Truth?"

After two weeks without a response, my mother grew impatient and asked him if he had received my email. This was his response:

"I'm sorry to say that I missed it. I have it now. I will respond in the next day or two.

-dcp"

This was December 04, 2012. I am still waiting for an answer. What bothers me more than him simply ignoring me is letting my mother down. She really looked up to this guy and here he is ignoring a sincere request by my TBM mother to reach out to her apostate son.

His letter is in the mail!

What a tool. Gets paid to talk to these folks and can't even help her out.

It's her fault isn't it?

She didn't exercise enough faith?

Maybe if she signs up for another study tour no?

Every once in awhile you can post "FU". I think most people here would understand who it's directed at.

I'm glad they read this site. It's the only time in 60 years that any mormon male was interested in anything I have to say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2014 01:28AM by madalice.

FU

I hope they read every word. They need to know how popular they are with people who THINK for a living.

They read it to see what "the enemy" is saying so they can take protective steps if necessary. If they had an ounce of sense, they would analyze what we are saying and think about making the changes they need to make in order to survive. They start off with the idea we are totally wrong and look for ways to protect the church when they should realize we are totally right and practically handing them the necessary fixes. You must have to be a special kind of dumb to be in upper leadership at the COB.

Its real simple....its like a large family who has a sister whos a drunk and an idiot and all the other siblings defend her... when the brother and sister in laws side of the family stand back on the lawn and mutter to each other and know there is a cover up and laugh their ass off.....and then get together a year later and up date each other and laugh and shake their heads again. Lies are lies stupidity is stupidity its really that simple.

Excellent point, CA girl.

From little things I've picked up, it appears to be an older, high priest age one. This person claims to be posting correct info about the Morg, and never discusses anything else. It's done in a very low key way, so as not to appear disruptive.

I mentioned it to Susan IS once.

Well, if Susan I/S didn't agree with you, then this person probably isn't a senior missionary.

I recommend letting it go. There is no way for you to know whether this person is a missionary unless they tell you.

Like I said, this one is very subtle, and Susan has to go after the obnoxious ones first.

Call me skeptical, but even if this person was a very subtle and crafty troll, you following them around and thinking about it (maybe even posting about it) won't make a difference.

That being said, I'm also skeptical that you've found a troll that not even Susan I/S or the rest of us could find.

I think most leadership types are too scared to troll sites like this for fear of damaging their fragile little testimonies.

Since when do Mormons want to know the real reason people leave? They've already made up their minds that it can only be because people were offended, lazy or sinned right? Or at best just had a weak testimony and didn't REALLY know the gospel.

If there are any leadership types here they are either highly paid church employees who are asked to do research on what the enemy is posting or they are rogue leaders who are surfing indepently just curious.

I'm sure the elite of the leaders know that it is a hoax (like TV evangelists and faith healers),
but they benefit so much from it both financially (they are part of the 1% with other perks) and ego-stroking. That mix of power *always* corrupts

'Tis pretty obvious that this site is responsible for nearly all of The Morg's recent changes/defenses:

BOM Intro
Essays
Brigham under the bus~Blacks
Doubt yer doubts


Hello Trolls!

Well, many of us read this site as TBMs. And I'm sure there's many current TBMs who are reading this site and will leave in the future. We should welcome them imo. They might argue with us, but that's the natural thing to do at first. Just give them time.

I know Susan I/S well enough to know she has some Machiavellian tendenices and is willing to let "let them hang themselves" if there isn't a lot of disruption.

Steve Benson and I encountered a lulu here one time that I think turned out to be Peterson (I won't say for certain). Steve "put the zinger in," and sure enough, the green troll skin, foaming-at-the-mouth, and snarling demeanor showed itself...

Others who've come here:

Van Hale
John Lynch
Michael Ash (he used his own name; I think it was trolling, but it was honest trolling ;-)
Jeff Lindsay

Best to report them, and occasionally we are permitted to play with them... Mostly I've lost my appetite for that stuff, but I don't mind serving as occasional cook for a troll barbecue.

BTW, one "troll" who came here, Michael Reed, later joined us on the dark side, and he's done some wonderful research on the subject of church history involving its use of the cross as a symbol and when it "rejected" it.

And I note Kerry Shirts appears to have packed up his Backyard Professor equipment and came here in good faith, no doubt with lots of doubts, so it's best to go easy on them.

AS I said years ago, RFM's message to the faithful is "As you are, we once were."

Hey, I had a few hours myself as a teenager where I was pretty much convinced the church was true...

That hot makeout session with the bishop's daughter really had me going.

I read this board everyday and I would agree there are indeed some subtle regular posters who are not what they seem.

There is even one who regularly posts unfavourably about the church, then defends it.

I dunno. I've occasionally posted what might be construed as "favorably toward the church" if I have experiences indicating that what was being said was incorrect. I like the church less every day, but whatever we think about it we ought to at least be as accurate as possible in our criticisms. Do people see that as "trolling"?...

Agree alyssum. When we are talking facts let's ALL do our best to make sure we are correct. When it comes to experiences and feelings it is another thing. And the LAST thing we want is a bunch of +1 group think. Yes, there is a lot of disagreement here but that is a GOOD thing.

There is often a rush to judgement here about trolls and people are often proven wrong. Just because someone's experiences do not reflect yours it does not make them trolls. If you think someone is trolling REPORT IT. We have tools as admin and that is why we get paid the Big Buck$.

"Do people see that as "trolling"?..."

That is a good question and yes, sadly, some people here do see it as trolling. I think it is understandable that they feel this way seeing as how this is a place where people come to recover from Mormonism and in that situation I can imagine anything that seems like a defense of Mormonism, even if it is only a discussion about a realistic interpretation of Mormonism, would be grating.

I used to be a super duper believing TBM. I finally had some questions and started researching on the internet. I mostly went to pro lds sites looking for answers.

One day I realized the LDS religion was a lying piece of horse shlt fraud.

My thought - unless Susan wants to kick them off, then let them learn. Trolls do not get the truth at their church. They get to believe instead of learn.

You never know when the answer you give will strike a chord and you will be their salvation from THE CULT.

The church is too business savvy not to utilize a free focus group like us in some way.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The church is too business savvy not to utilize a
> free focus group like us in some way.


nailed it

No reason to survey the disgruntled, when you can get it for free. Business smart /money saved :-)

It's time to come out of the closet. I, pigsinzen, am a troll. My real name is Boyd, but my friends call me Kenny. I invite all of you to come join me at church this coming up Sunday. There will be refreshments (wonderbread and water!), motivational speakers, and my favorite part of the day...Priesthood meeting! I just love telling all the virgin Deacons not to masturbate. I love it so much I sometimes get hands on with them. Uh, oops, nevermind.

As a new exmo I have a few thoughts...

First, I welcome trolls. I think if anything, this site could damage their testimonies. I have an exmo friend who was shocked to realize how Jo 'translated' the plates (head in the hat). She was BIC and had never heard that before. That started her on her journey out. Funny thing is, she was doing lesson prep for a class she was teaching in church. The thing is, there is no way we're ever going to be converted back, but there is a chance that this site will plant the seeds of doubt in them.

Second, I have a love-hate relationship with the church. I have some very cool TBM friends who are truly some of the kindest, most non judgmental people I know. I have fond memories of Girls Camp and youth activities, and of generous, caring leaders. I have no beef with the members in my ward. Yes, a lot of them are narrow minded or ignorant about some things, but hey, probably so was I about some stuff when I was TBM. All in all, I think they are generally good people trying to live good lives. I know I don't have I go into the reasons why I hate many, if not most things about the church. There are plenty. The point I'm trying g to make is, just because someone defends the church or has the occasional nice thing to say about doesn't necessarily mean they're a troll. Maybe they're conflicted, maybe they're trying hard to prop something up that is very fragile.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

I had the distinct displeasure of talking to a handful of the Twelve Elite with regard to personal questions about the church and ways I could help others gain a testimony. I can confirm that I was either patronized, devalued, or just given off-hand responses such as, "Pray about it" or "There's nothing I can tell you". Their responses were always followed by a quick retreat.

Just once I would have liked a warm handshake or pat on the shoulder and a response something like, "I don't have all the answers but know that God loves you, I care about you, and I sincerely wish you well in your search for answers".

If even one of them could have looked me in the eye and given me a heartfelt smile or nod of approval I would have been walking on a cloud. I got nothing like that. I really, truly believe those men know the church is false and are loath to talk about it except when required to for their position and status.

The only authority I felt the least bit of caring and compassion from was Howard W. Hunter and he was on his last leg. Maybe he wanted to get right with the Lord before he passed on.

Now that doubting your doubts is a popular thing why not come here to troll.