you are giving them way too much power.

i had a similar experience. he wanted to meet with my kid, not even 9. he wanted to know why my son didn't show any interest on being baptized. i didn't bother with 1 and 2 below. i went straight to 3.

1] find out if it's legal in your state to have a meeting with a child without your consent.

2] if illegal, mention that to your bishop. let him know he would be breaking the law. you are calling the cops and your lawyer.

3] legal or not, it's your kid. tell him he's not authorized to talk to your kid in private. if he has a problem he would need to talk to your lawyer.

i don't know what other ramifications that could have. no more cookies delivered to your door by your home teachers? big fucking deal.

man up dude. let him have it. fuck what he says.

it's your kid for christ's sake.

in my case, nothing happened after i told him no. i ended up going into his office. i told him i was there representing my kid. if i heard something i didn't like we would finish the meeting at once. and we did.

he looked at me like he was about to die or something. good riddance. i thanked him for his time, stood up and walked away. never been bothered again. we had a really polite conversation but I was the one who was dictating the pace and the topics and above all, my precious time. take charge of the situation.

take care bro.

Children are a huge and holy responsibility.

Parents ought to put their safety and emotional needs first.

Do not back down on this. If your kid is embarrassed about you being there, compile a list of news stories about child molesting church authorities and give it to your son. He is old enough to get it. I did something similar with my 11 year old dd (not Mormon, but she wanted to do something that would have put her in a vulnerable position) and she understood pretty quickly why I said no.

excatholic Wrote:
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> He is old enough to get it.

Exactly. Sit your son down and tell him that under no circumstances do you want some strange man getting him behind closed doors to ask him if he masturbates.

Let him know that this man has no right to ask him such personal questions. It's his body and his business. Empower your son with information and tell him to stand up for himself.

If the Church thinks that he's old enough to be asked such a question, then they'd better be prepared for him to tell them that it's none of their business.

Except to tell him the bishop is going to try to ask him questions about his penis and you think that's private.

Then follow up with the standard spiel about private parts, never ever talk to any adult about them or let them touch them or check them out, etc. Any questions he comes to you.

Be sure and let him know that every person should know how their body works and that touching himself because it feels good is called "masturbation" and it is a normal part of growing up.

I'm sure you know all this, but be sure and tell him this is not about Mormonism, it is about protecting him from abuse. Some sick adults get off on talking to kids about sex and your job as a parent is to protect him.

I wish I had done that - if I had, my boy wouldn't have been molested by a church leader who told him he needed to "check his development." He never told me until he was grown!

Best

Kathleen Waters

I learned this trick from another thread.

Google Search, abuse from a position of authority.

42 million hits

Don't back down, your kids might get hurt if you back down.

Relax - the Bishop just wants to ask you kid if he masturbates.

When my daughter was 17 and living with her tbm father she called me in a panic......she had got a "summons" to appear for a "court of love". First I told her she was under no obligation to appear but she wanted to go just not alone. I said ok no problem, your aunt and I will be there. We showed up (wearing pants mind you) and when they came to drag her into the office with several adult males we got up to go with her. They said that they wanted to speak with her alone, that was the way they did things. I said well that is NOT the way WE do things and if they wanted to talk to her they talked to all of us. They said no so I said ok let's go. Then they were like wait! So we agreed to a "non-formal"meeting with all of us which included her boyfriend at the time. So in we went where they began making vague accusations against my daughter. Just called it activities unsuitable for an LDS girl. I kept trying to get them to be specific but no. My sister and I then began to tell them how inappropriate it was for several adult males to take a young girl behind closed doors. By the time we left they had been told in no uncertain terms how we felt about it. My sister had them believing she was an attorney although never saying she was. She took great pride in telling them she was a fifth grade teacher. Lol! As we came out we found my ex tbm waiting after he had told our daughter he would be there to support her.....late as usual. Daughter had handed them resignation papers which they ignored saying she was too young to make that decision. She is all grown up and happily a member of a nice Christian church. Such fond memories! Lol!

Too young to resign but old enough to represent herself in a court of love. That is some messed up "reasoning."

Thankfully she has you, good job.

Great evidence that it is a cult and that they use abuse and sexuality to controlpeople.

Glad she was there for her daughter, so many of these TBMs, NOMs, and Jacks are weak parents. What do I do? What do I do?

Tell the Mormon bishop to pound rocks and resign finally,get your kids out of the cult.

yes, good for you!

Excellent. YOU did the right thing. Bravo. Happy that your child is no longer part of that bullying corporation.

When I was a bishop I did Disciplinary Councils to a handful of young women (young men too). It felt extremelly awkward at time and hated it. I just hated being alone with a person of the opposite sex, specially when asking questions about chastity. I tried to be as vague as possible.

Now, I just feel so bad for having been used by a manipulative institution to do such a thing. Sometimes I feel like calling each one of them and apologizing for not having the discernment to see it was simply wrong and stupid. Perhaps I will do it.

olemare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When my daughter was 17 and living with her tbm
> father she called me in a panic......she had got a
> "summons" to appear for a "court of love". First I
> told her she was under no obligation to appear but
> she wanted to go just not alone. ...
> Such fond memories!
> Lol!

Everything you did was perfect. This is why the church does not want women in authority, the men would look like idjit rednecks in comparison.

boundaries.

Nobody has the right to ask him questions about whether or not he touches his body. If he wanted to ask someone else questions about it, that would be his choice. As a parent, it would be appropriate for you to talk about the facts of life, tell him what your values are, and make sure he is responsible and prepared to be safe.

Nobody has the right to probe his worthiness, or to quiz/interrogate him to see if his thoughts and beliefs are in compliance with their expectations. Just allowing that line of questioning is handing over power to other people, and presuming that they have the right to judge. They don't. What someone believes should NEVER be a test for worthiness.

Mainly, he needs to know that these people do NOT have a right to know his innermost thoughts and beliefs, nor to judge his worthiness. He needs to learn to say "that's a personal question and you shouldn't be asking me that."

imaworkinonit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "that's a personal question and you
> shouldn't be asking me that."

Exactly. And he can say, "All you should be asking me is if I am morally clean and the answer is, "Yes.""

He can even put the burden on Dad and say that his Dad said that he wasn't to answer a question if it got that personal, as long as he's strong enough to stand up for himself and insist that he will not answer it and to talk to his Dad if he has a problem with that.

As a never-mo it never ceases to amaze me how much actual authority and control that some Mormon parents give to others over their own children.

Wow, just wow.

I would go directly to the bishop and say the following: Hey Bruce (first name only). I'm uncomfortable with my son being alone in a room with an adult male given all the news articles about sexual abuse in churches (hand him stack of printed articles). I understand it is your policy to not allow me to be present with my child when you interview him, so I was thinking of a solution that I would feel comfortable with and that would still follow your guidelines. I would like a list of the questions you will be asking my son. Given his developmental age, It would be most appropriate that they be questions that can be answered with a simple yes, no, or even no response. This list should also in no way under any circumstances have a single question related to his sexuality or masturbation, or you will have a sexual abuse lawsuit on your hands. I would like a recording of this interview made, so I can be sure that you stuck to your scripted questions and stayed appropriate. I will sit right outside the door so if I hear any crying or other upset, I will be able to protect him. Your door will remain unlocked, and I would be happy to have another adult of your choosing present outside the door with me as a witness. My son will be wearing a rape whistle, just in case you attempt any physical contact with him, and he will be trained to use it. Thank you, I'm sure as a parent yourself you will understand that it is never appropriate to place a young child alone in a room with a stranger, let alone one who will be asking sexual questions.

call child protective services. And then call a local TV station. lets get them all together and on the same page. That might help

I was thinking of maybe emailing the Trib or something like that. Clearly what's going on here is highly inappropriate, but I wonder if it's so commonplace in Utah that no media outlet would find it newsworthy on any level.

I want to shine a spotlight on this. At the very least I will have words with both the bishop and sp, but I sure would like to see that humanity outside of our circle on this site gives a damn.

did you see that facebook page that someone asked be posted? I think you should team up with that person.

This particular bish/sp are just being.... jerks. Tell them to show you in their CHI where it says that. Make them give you a page and tell them you will be looking it up yourself. That should put an end to this nonsense.

What I'll probably end up doing is not push it any further. I could use it as an opportunity to teach my boys that what these men are doing is wrong and they're doing it through direct revelation, in the name of God. I should probably welcome this situation as an unexpected but wonderful gift.

I will post an update after my conversations with these two tools.

Just two tools making things up.

Hey, Heber, I would love to hear you weigh in on this...you were so recently on the dark side.

Welcome to the light side, by the way!

Your are taking this all wrong. It is not a question of weather you can sit in the interview. Your child. You don't ask you just do. YOU have the authority over your child not him. YOU call the shots! He (BS / SP) follow your rules. This is not negotiable. Take him to the interview (if you must do it at all) and when we calls him in his office, simply get up and follow him in. When the Bishop tries to stop you, tell him MY CHILD, MY RULES.(not yelling, but assertive) I will sit in any and all interviews until he is of legal age. This is not negotiable on any level. If this does not work for you bishop, then I will leave and ask my lawyer contact the COB and look into this matter of parents / legal guarding not being allowed in interviews with under aged children.
Now, shall we continue or should I leave with my son?

I don't understand even the thought of letting your child do this without you in there. Who has the power you or that asswipe bishop? If you don't stand up for your child, who will? If you don't go in with him then YOU are putting tscc before your very own child!!!!!

Grow some balls!!!

I agree.

And then, start the interview . . . I mean conversation off with a few of your own questions about the bishops morality, including the important oral sex question.

I just told them at the time never were they to be alone with any of my children.

I am sure they thought I was just crazy enough to not go there.

after my daughter turned 15 and had a boat load of confidence and a lot of physical skills I did not worry about her .

word got around when she turned 16 and knock out a boy wit a blow to the head when she said no and he did not stop.

In June 2013, a poster named "copostmo" sent an email to his local Christian ministers about Mormon bishop interviews and compiled the replies he received. They are an interesting read.
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,911542,911542#msg-911542
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,912503,912503#msg-912503
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,921151,921151#msg-921151
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,925430,925430#msg-925430

Here are the discussion threads from May 2013 that took place with his child's bishop that precipitated his e-mail to the ministers:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,896790,896790#msg-896790
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,897767,897767#msg-897767
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,898610,898610#msg-898610

Coach your son to interview the Bishop instead.

"Bishop, did you ever masturbate at my age? Have you ever broken the word of wisdom? Did you ever look at pornography or lust after a women not your wife? ... If you wont answer my questions why should I answer yours? Why are you superior to me? You were once my age and I will someday be your age. Sounds like you can dish it out but can't take it. My father authorized this statement."

I do like that.


But frankly, the notion of an untrained functionary performing a "bishop's interview" raises my hackles.

My nephew is 12. I can't imagine my sister allowing an interview like that in a million years. There's just no way that would ever happen.

Actually, it never happened to me when I was a bishop, but if a father wanted to be present in a interview, I would feel pretty disconfortable just because it's so unusual and I would have felt the boy could be intimidated by his presence. It's possible that he wouldn't be willing to tell all of his problems, if there were any.

If anyone asked to be present, I would call the Stake President and ask for his opinion. Regardless, of it, I think I would probably let the father be in. It's his son and if the boy was not worthy, didn't tell me because his father was there, and receive the ordinance anyway, I think it wouldn't have been my problem, as I did what I was supposed to do.

Looking at my current point of view, however, if your kid is still going to Church because of his mother of something, you've got to decide. He's either in or out. If he's in, people will expect him to go through the motions as everyone else does and he may feel bad if he doesn't. If he's out, to the hell with "priesthood" and "interviews". Just tell him it's all made up and teach him to spend his time with something more useful.

Why do they ask anything other than, "Do you keep the Law of Chastity?" That's all I was ever asked.

If I had a twelve-year-old child - I don't have kids - the last thing I would want is for them to think that masturbation (almost surely the only way a child that age would "break" the "Law of Chastity") was something evil. I mean, seriously, I had discovered it by that age, and I was a GIRL.

Such an "interview" would never take place in my world, thankfully. It would be seen as all kinds of weird, even with a parent present! And downright evil without one there. I don't care how normal this is in Mormon circles. THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

Trained pastors will not meet with ANY minor alone. The pastor of our protestant church will even cancel a confirmation class if only one of the kids can come.

As a responsible parent please don't let your child be interviewed alone by the bishop.No matter how nice the guy may appear to be on the surface, you just can't tell what he may really be like underneath.

I severed all ties with TSCC twenty seven years ago when my son was eight years old. A few years later I discovered that the person who would have interviewed him at 12, was an active pedophile.

As an aside...I don't know what it is like in other countries, but here in Australia, children under the age of 18 are not allowed to be interviewed by police without another "appropriate adult" being present. People who want to work with children are also required to obtain a police clearance and carry a card that confirms this.

I don't know how these laws apply to churches and their clergy as I have had nothing to do with religion since TSCC, but maybe some other Aussies on this forum would know.