Four in the family, three of us are out of the church (two officially, one "out" metephorically, waiting for our daughter.

Ok, here is the damage, My 15 yr old son is doing great out of the church. Should have done this long ago. I have never been happier nor more certain that I make a good choice in my life. My wife doesnt go, doesnt beleive, but wont leave until our daughter leaves. But things are not well with my daughter. She has high funtioning autism and what appears to be some sort of "quiet borderline personalitiy disorder", in a frightening "waif" sort of way. She wasn't always like this though her "aspergers Syndrom" has always shown through at times.

Before, she would go to chruch, seem happy there, then fall apart when she got home. We would work with her for hours trying to help her cope with what goes on in the teenage mormon world. She would be better off out of the church I know and part of me wonders if I should just make the decision for her as she is underage, but I think it is better for her to make that decision.

She is just not talking to us. I think she is angery with us for her having to make this decision when she cant make decisions. I told her that she is free to go to church and I will support her in anyway I can. I almost just want her to pick something in life. But she needs to understand that the three of us will not live a life we hate in order to make one life happy. We are all individuals. It is fine if we are a part member family. My big fear is the little contact she does have with them only screws with her mind...."her hamily is making bad choices and it is up to her to set the example.." and etc. I know those conversations have taken place from family and members she does hang out with.

What really pisses me off is I would never interfer with thier families private lives, why the hell do they do it to my family. I am a borderline athiest, well atleast agnostic but if there is a devil somehwere, it resides in the mormon church. What also pisses me off, it seems everywhere I turn online for help...psycology forums, self help websites, etc, I am bombarded with Mormon Ads. Great, these predators are feasting on the poor and suffering people. Find people who are suffering and fleece them for their time and money. Take someone who is suffering mentally and srew with their mind more. The church is sick.

I just don't know where this is going to end. I took her to counciling and she said very little. Here in Idaho, even outside of LDS services, it is damn hard to find a professional that isn't a fucking mormon. Where do I turn?

Well if it helps, the ads you see are based on sites you've visited and keywords you used.

And as a completely irresponsible armchair amateur psych opinion, I think you should make that call for her. If she does have borderline, she won't make the call that disappoints a portion of people who help define her. You need to give her a better reality.

I'm glad you have her in therapy, you sound like a good dad. Especially wanting her to make that decision. But taking her back for reinforcement every week... She's not ever going to make the decision you hope she will.
Are there any other borderlines in your life? I don't know if you are aware of the scope of this. They are perfect for the cult, emotions trump facts all the time.
But if you leave her there as a member, they will abuse her for decades, take her money and continue to implant guilt and disordered thinking in her. Please be the responsible one!

The borderline issues do make it that much more tricky, don't they?

I wonder if you leaving the church has triggered some of the abandonment/rejection complex, making her feel like you are rejecting HER instead of the CHURCH?

I agree with WinksWinks, you sound like a good and caring parent, keep trying, and hopefully you will get through to her. It won't be easy, though, it really comes down to her.

Make the decision for her. Pull her out. The LDS church is not helping her and is demonstrably hurting her. If she needs fellowship, have her check out a local Girl Scout troop.

Maybe she could do an experiment. Stop going to church for 3 months and see if she's happier without it.

The only problem would be if her friends are all Mormon, they'd put pressure on her to return.

I think you should probably just make that call for her. It's clearly causing her problems. If she insists on going one weekend because of her friends, you can go ahead and let her go. Then when she has the breakdown when she comes home, you can discuss this breakdown and why. You can be sure to bring it up in therapy. There are things we do in life we do because we have to. Church isn't one of them. You can work with this comparison that is happy and functional away from church, unhappy and unable to cope in church. You're also dealing with the pressure and ugly words coming from near strangers just waiting to pounce all over a vulnerable and emotional teen with the added benefit of Asperger. It's hard enough dealing with teens without outsiders fucking it up. Family, my left foot. They don't give a sh!t but you're the one left dealing with the damage. You're still the grownup, and you still get to make some choices. You've given her time to make that choice, now you need to make it for her.

Thx for the replies. She is 16 yrs old but seemly slipped backwards a few years in maturity over this. I know it had to be done. I was the first to leave....it was my duty to do so and lead the way.

She doesnt go to church, but she does go to some weekday activities here and there and this is where I bleive the manipulation is taking place. Who the hell knows who is talking to her and what is said.

My wife and I are discussion the option of having her and my daughter leave together. There is some good, my daughter has slowely over the last few months been taking down some of the MOrmon posters in her room and getting rid of some of the books. I have not pushed the issue because she is slowely leaving, but I just fear perhaps not fast enough to escape the bombardment of the churches guilt trips and manipulation.

The only problem is as she suffers from aspergers, her only friends are mormon. But in truth, what kind of friends are manipulative mormons anyway. I need to get her away. I just need to do it right and I have no clue what that is.

Thx again

Add me to those who think you should decide it. If, after a good period outside TSCC she wishes to return, you can allow it. Right now, she needs to be slowly given other things to decide so that she doesn't take it as evidence you don't think she can make decisions.

You should also seek some non-mo friends for her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2014 02:00PM by rhgc.

I know it's very hard to find therapists who are unbiased by Mormonism. As I made the decision to stop going to church, I was faced with that dilemma. Thankfully, I was referred to Healing House Counseling. My therapist's name is Sandy Brooke, and she is a former Mormon who knows all about the difficulties LDS people face. She's a wonderfully compassionate woman, and she has a granddaughter with autism. If you want to see if she's taking on new patients, you can reach her at Healing House Counseling, (801) 996-3547.

She's done wonders for me.

We all are well aware of the tactics of the church. This is a story thats been played out a million times and we know how it ends. The rest of your family is lost to them but you've left a loose end. They want that girl. They will plant a wedge between her and you at every opportunity. When they've stolen her from your family they will blame you for being the apostates. Gird up your loins, give this girl a splash of reality by letting her know the true origins & history of this church & what it really is.
Its not enough for them in this case that you are open enough to let her do her own thing. Like wolves they will encroach & advance without shame. Do something while you still can.

Thx to all for your support. I have some thinking to do. The one thing I fear is the ramifications of while the three of us leave the church of our own accord, the damage that might come from her thinking she was unable to make that decision herself. It is so much better for her to make that decision. Her self esteem is through the floor anyway. We do talk opening about the church around her and I think she is gaining ground. The problem lies when she goes to some activity and they say things to her.

The good news is she hasn't been to even one of the weekday activities in a few months. I worry that they are still contacting her in ways though. I think that the damage comes from what has already been said to her in the past. As she has Aspergers, she is remembering every detail and those maniplulative words are haunting her. I think she likely had her familie's "eternal salvation" placed upon her shoulders and remembering it all loud and clear. She might even be feeling intense guilt and blaming herself that she failed in some way after we left the church. The timing of her mental problems lines up perfectly with when we left the church.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2014 02:38PM by dcgsage.

Sorry, my spelling sucks

What I would do is tell her that she is free to go back to church when she is X years of age or emancipated, but from now as parent you have noticed that church activities make her feel depressed and sad, and you will be acting in her best interests by pulling her out. I'm serious when I tell you to check out the Girl Scouts for her. My senior troop was a happy, accepting bunch of girls of all different faiths. They were my best friends. Plus by putting her in GS, you are tying her in to a vast national network.

Actually, She has showed a bit of intrest in kick boxing or some other way to legally and controllingly get her frustrations out. She goes on lots of walks and bike ride by herself.

She used to be into photography big time. I gave her my old film cameras and bought her a Canon DSLR. She shot thousands of photos...make that thousands upon thousands and she is good at it. Her camera sadly sits lately and I know it is from depression. Hell, I know what that is about....I have been and avid fly fisherman and fly tyer for over 35 years, since I was about 12. Much of my equipment sits as I too am either busy and or depressed/worried about family, etc.

I think we will sit down with her and discuss her future and how having her away from the church will be of great benefit.

You are getting pretty good advice here and read it over and make the best decision you can. I was born and raised in Pocatello, ID which is very Mormon so of course you may be in a similar place. Her friends will make a big difference to her so it is possible she may want to attend to fit in to whatever peer group she is comfortable with. Be supportive of what she wants to do as she still needs her freedom to choose but let her know that you and the rest of the family are comfortable out of the church and do not need pressure from her to change.

Just be loving and supportive and it should work out in time. Do not force her to not attend as this will create resentment and may back fire on what you hope for her. Best of luck to you. I live in Utah county now and have not lived in Idaho for many years but I was born and raised there until an adult so I can equate with the kind of community you live in.

As the mother of a daughter with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder and Asperger's Syndrome, I think you should make the call for your daughter. My daughter (who is now 31) agrees with me. The conflicting messages she is getting at home together with what she is getting from church members is probably putting her in a horrible state of mind. My daughter started not believing when she was a teenager, but she wouldn't say anything but she couldn't stand up for herself and thought it was expected of her. Since your wife is taking her to church, your daughter probably thinks this is what is expected from her, even though you and your son aren't going. IMO, the "teenage mormon world" is not a good place for your daughter, and you should actively try to extricate her from it.

morgbotnot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As the mother of a daughter with an Autistic
> Spectrum Disorder and Asperger's Syndrome, I think
> you should make the call for your daughter. My
> daughter (who is now 31) agrees with me. The
> conflicting messages she is getting at home
> together with what she is getting from church
> members is probably putting her in a horrible
> state of mind. My daughter started not believing
> when she was a teenager, but she wouldn't say
> anything but she couldn't stand up for herself and
> thought it was expected of her. Since your wife
> is taking her to church, your daughter probably
> thinks this is what is expected from her, even
> though you and your son aren't going. IMO, the
> "teenage mormon world" is not a good place for
> your daughter, and you should actively try to
> extricate her from it.

My wife doesnt take her to church. My wife doesn't go. Even my daughter hasn't gone in months. I am just afraid as she is an "Aspie", much of the damage has been done to her literal mind and will take some undoing to right the wrongs. I think we will sit down and discuss the good things that will happen if she leaves. My wife can leave and we will all be out.

I think we will all funtion better as a family when we are all out of the church.

Funny (well, not funny) side note: When my son and I left, we instructed the bishop that we were not to be contacted and be left alone. We have been anything but left alone....true they don't call or come to the house but thye rumors are flying.....how can they call that "no contact and be left alone"? WHo can't leave who alone?

dcgsage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My wife doesn't take her to church. My wife
> doesn't go. Even my daughter hasn't gone in
> months. I am just afraid as she is an "Aspie",
> much of the damage has been done to her literal
> mind and will take some undoing to right the
> wrongs. I think we will sit down and discuss the
> good things that will happen if she leaves. My
> wife can leave and we will all be out.
>
> I think we will all funtion better as a family
> when we are all out of the church.
>
> Funny (well, not funny) side note: When my son
> and I left, we instructed the bishop that we were
> not to be contacted and be left alone. We have
> been anything but left alone....true they don't
> call or come to the house but thye rumors are
> flying.....how can they call that "no contact and
> be left alone"? WHo can't leave who alone?


Okay, I'm sorry - I misread your initial posting. If your daughter hasn't gone in months, then that is a step in the right direction. Yes, it's going to take time to undo what Mormonism and the Mormon Teenage World has done to your daughter, but as long as she stays away, that's what is best. Has she been talking about going again? If so, you obviously should tell her that your family is not Mormon anymore and that you all will not be returning.

But as far as resigning goes, I'm not sure that is really necessary. My daughter (now 31) has never resigned, but she has been out since she was 22 and does not consider herself Mormon anymore. But then my daughter was not diagnosed with the ASD or Asperger's until she was 22 - it wasn't as prevalent a diagnosis when she was a teenager, and up until that point she was diagnosed with learning disabilities, ADD, Social Anxiety Disorder, and Generalized Depression. She never related well to others her age and felt ostracized. Of course, adding the Mormon Teenage World to that made for a horrible combination.

People with Aspergers are extremely literal. My son has Aspergers and he has taken leaving the church very well. He thrives outside of it. My opinion is you need to get her out and reverse the conditioning quickly before it goes to far. She is still a minor and you need to protect her and her heart. If I had to guess she likely takes the lesons, teachings and everything she hears as truth and literal. Just tell her we aren't doing it anymore, plan other things for that time slot and tell her if she desires she can revisit the issue when she is 18 and graduated from high school. :).

I agree with the need to find something structured to replace it. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that ASD folks thrive on routine. It's likely that she likes the comfort of the quiet and the predictable nature of the day.

Can you create a predictable Sunday based around. What she loves (at least until she can let go of the church?). Favorite breakfast? Quiet hiking spot? Unitarian church? A class or activity she'll eventually be able to do on her own for an hour of two?

Chances are it's the routine rather than the doctorine. That could include the idea of having doctorine, btw.

Our family was out of the cult but not resigned. Lived in small Mormon comunity. Only friends for children were Mormons. DD was 14. Friends invited her to church with them. Bishop took advantage of her attendance and pulled her in an interview. Told her she would not be with her family in next life if we didn't get back into activity.

Daughter stared to cry in his office. Hurt and angry at his words. That was the last time she EVER went to church though it took her ten years to finally tell me about the experience. It took her actually resigning her membership in the cult to let the wound heal and the the healing to be complete.

It was probably good she waited so long to tell me (and we had moved to another town by then). I would have confronted him. If I ever see him again, I still will. The audacity of the Mormons and their leaders rile me to no end.

Growing up in a Mormon community was hell for all my children. DW still has not resigned nor has oldest DD. Wife stays on roles because she fears repercusion from the cult (her job). Not sure why oldest doesn't resign. Says she doesn't see the need as she doesn't believe.

I suggest you simply have your DW and DD resign NOW. (DD can rejoin when she is 18 if she wants. Then it will be her choice.) Staying the course you have been is like cutting a dogs tail off bit by bit making healing rather impossible. Move forward. Move on. Enough waiting and hoping. Let the operation be over so the healing can begin. Take the reins while you can and make the decision you know needs to be made NOW. Let your future blossom without the blight of the Cult.

JMHO

Make the decision for her.

Although she is 15, her behavior is telling you it is too much of a confusing guilt burden for her. That's all you really need to know. She needs to have confidence that her parents will act on her behalf if she needs them to.

When she's ready to make these kinds of decisions, she will tell you.

If she wants to go back when she's adult, she can do that. You're just taking pressure off her during her teens, which is loving.

That's my best advice for you, friend, and I could be wrong. You know what's best for your family and gathering other people's views and reading on the internet is part of making up your mind.

Hugs


Kathleen Waters

I know of a great Therapist in Boise, ID. Let me know if you're interested.

Brad