Reading anon123's post about having to go to church today got me to thinking... It really is pointless to make people go to church.

I grew up a mainstream Presbyterian, which is a pretty benign denomination as Christian churches go. Every week, my parents forced me to go to church. I had to sit by myself because my dad was in the choir and my mom was a church organist, often not even at the church where I attended. My sisters were all grown and out of the house. It wasn't like church was a "family affair" for us. In fact, I think my mom just saw church as a way to make extra money.

Every week, my dad made me get up, get dressed up, and go to church. I wasn't at all interested in church. I didn't have a lot of friends my age in church; most of my church friends were adults. I'd sit through the services drawing or reading or whatever... I wasn't mentally present at all.

During the week, my parents didn't talk about church or religion. We didn't pray or read the Bible together. I did get exposed to a lot of music because my parents were into it, but I didn't participate in the church music myself. My parents made me go to Sunday School and attend confirmation class when I was 10, but I didn't even know what my church taught until I was 21 and worked as a cook at a Presbyterian church camp.

As a teenager and a young adult, I could not have cared less about church and got virtually nothing out of attending. Thankfully, my parents let me quit going when I was almost 16 and had a job that required me to work on Sundays. I guess it was more important to them that I make money than protecting my spiritual health. I'm glad I grew up Presbyterian, mainly for cultural reasons. I have a lot of Scottish ancestry. And I'm grateful the Presbyterians don't take over one's life the way the Mormons do. I can appreciate the potential value of church now, but I don't attend and I don't really miss attending.

Reading anon123's post made me wonder how many people are physically, but not mentally, present in churches today... How many people are attending just because someone expects them to? And what is the point of making a teen or a young adult go to church... other than the control aspect and projecting the proper image?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2011 12:03PM by knotheadusc.

I agree. If a kid doesn't want to go, the parents are not doing them any good by forcing them to go. Quite the opposite. I think parents push their kids further away by trying to break their will.

My mother was raised Catholic and was always forced to go to church. When I was born, she didn't want to have me baptized, but gave in to pressure from her mother.

Once her mother died, my mother never went to church again. She had a very negative feeling about it after having it shoved down her throat for so many years. My brother and sister were never baptized, and I was never taken to a Catholic service.

When my husband and I lived in the DC area, we had neighbor friends who had been raised Catholic. They wanted their daughters to have some Catholic training, but they didn't care about church themselves. So every Sunday, they dressed up their two daughters and sent them to church with one of the other Catholic neighbors who taught confirmation class. I wondered what the point of THAT was... I mean, if you don't care about attending church, why make your kids go? I guess they did it for "cultural" reasons, but clearly they don't care that much about religion.

Some girls in my ward when I was a teenager came by themselves too. I never saw their parents at church or school. (It was a small school, I'd have known if they showed up.) Their grandmother was a super TBM but they didn't speak to her - falling out with the parents. So they had to studiously avoid her for the whole 3 hours. They did speak to their grandfather, but he didn't attend because he hated the bish. Very weird why the parents would send their kids off to be in that situation.

I'm 17, nonbelieving, and i still go to church with my parents. I am not mentally there at all -when I am I'm shaking my head and making faces over things people are saying. My parents don't force me to go, but I go to spare their feelings. They both risked A LOT in converting to the church (they grew up in veryveryvery strict Irish-Catholic homes) and I don't want them to think they did it without having any positive affect on me.

And, plus, I'm moving half way across the country in August/September. They won't have to know for quite some time that I won't be going to church out there. Though they do expect me to give it up eventually, cause I'm gay and I've made it clear that I don't intend to live my life the way the church would like and they're understanding of that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2011 12:27PM by givemethismoment.

It's simply magnets my dear Dawson.

Woops. Meant Watson. I was thinking of Great Mouse Detective(that movie was so underrated. Such a great movie). :D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2011 02:07PM by anon123.

This is a really hot-button issue for me right now. My son is 14 and not interested in going anymore. DW drags him to church every Sunday. For some reason, a child is old enough to get baptized at 8, but not old enough to stop going to church until the age of 18. My DW is scared to death that he's going to became a drug addict if he stops going to church, or that he's going to lose his friends, so she insists that he go to church. He has already figured out that the religion is, in his own words, "made up". I reminded her that he does not have friends at church anyway.(They NEVER call him, unless its by assignment to remind him of a church activity.) Unfortunately, I forgot to remind DW during this discussion that her own brother went to church AND smoked pot all through high school. (but that's probably a good thing that I didn't think of that.)

Good for you for at least caring what your son wants.

My dad made me go because he couldn't stand to be disagreed with or to have things done some way other than his.

I think he was always that little 6-year-old boy who lost his father and got an abusive stepfather instead, trying to control what he could. He was really into being the boss. Plus he had a mood disorder.

I don't remember how much of a stand I made or if I ever actually stayed home, but somehow I got the idea that things would be a lot easier around the house during the week if I went. It was probably just my dad telling me that and me believing him.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2011 03:00PM by munchybotaz.

"You can either go to Sacrament or stay home and clean the kitchen".

Talk about bad conditioning. What were they thinking?

I'd stay home and clean the kitchen!

I think to some extent it depends on the age of the kid. If you and your spouse attend, it isn't very convenient to find someone to watch a small child who'd rather play. Sometimes kids have to do things they don't want, but I agree that forcing older kids or sending unwilling kids with someone else is counter productive. Also, if a little kid really hates church as opposed to preferring to stay home and play, I would certainly be concerned and find out why.Most kids would opt out of church , at least when they are little, but so long as they are little, it a parent's choice.

When I started this thread, I was thinking of people who are capable of looking after themselves.

knotheadusc Wrote:
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> When I started this thread, I was thinking of
> people who are capable of looking after
> themselves.

I agree. I just don't think believers need to give into the whims of a three year old and hire a baby sitter because he'd rather watch TV or play with his Legos.That sets a precedent for who is in charge and it isn't the parent. If the little one really hate going to church , though, the parents need to look into it. Something could be very wrong. As for teens, I agree. You can encourage, but forcing them isn't going to do any good and is pointless.In fact, it may result in the exact opposite of what the parents want.

Well, a three year old probably belongs in the nursery as opposed to the church service. That's how they did it at the church I grew up going to, anyway.

I agree that parents need to look into it when a kid really doesn't like certain aspects of church. When I was 9 or 10 years old, I had a Sunday School teacher who gave me the creeps. I used to hide in the bathroom to avoid going to his class. One day, he confronted my dad about why I wasn't coming to Sunday School... Instead of asking me why I skipped Sunday School, my dad gave me a good whaling. That sure didn't make me like Sunday School or church anymore than I had up until that point.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 08:27AM by knotheadusc.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, a three year probably belongs in the nursery
> as opposed to the church service. That's how they
> did it at the church I grew up going to, anyway.
>
> I agree that parents need to look into it when a
> kid really doesn't like certain aspects of church.
> When I was 9 or 10 years old, I had a Sunday
> School teacher who gave me the creeps. I used to
> hide in the bathroom to avoid going to his class.
> One day, he confronted my dad about why I wasn't
> coming to Sunday School... Instead of asking me
> why I skipped Sunday School, I got a good whaling.
> That sure didn't make me like Sunday School or
> church anymore than I had up until that point.

Most churches at least offer a nursery for small kids and if the parents opt to take them to the service, it is rarely longer than an hour. Expecting kids to sit through the three hour block must be torture. It just isn't in the nature of a child to be still that long.I took my 2 year old nephew to an Epsicopal church a few times. He went to a play room and had a ball. He loved church. He wouldn't have loved sitting still for three hours listening to an adult preach at him. As far as your experience, the guy could have been a pervert or abusive. It is too bad your parents didn't think that there might be a good reason why you were hiding in the bathroom. It isn't like the bathroom is a lot of fun or a place where a kid loves to go.

Yeah... I really don't know why I didn't like him, but I didn't. And yeah, hiding in the bathroom wasn't fun. He was an elderly man and his wife was the church pianist. She was very nice and extremely intelligent and educated. She and my mom are still very good friends. The Sunday School teacher died a couple of years after that incident back in the mid 80s, so it got pushed to the back of my mind.

The next teacher I had was also an older man, but we always got along great. He and his wife kept in touch with me until he died in 2009. They even came to my wedding.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2011 08:36PM by knotheadusc.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah... I really don't know why I didn't like him,
> but I didn't. He was an elderly man and his wife
> was the church pianist. She was very nice and
> extremely intelligent and educated. She and my
> mom are still very good friends. The Sunday
> School teacher died a couple of years after that
> incident back in the mid 80s, so it got pushed to
> the back of my mind.
>
> The next teacher I had was also an older man, but
> we always got along great. He and his wife kept
> in touch with me until he died in 2009. They even
> came to my wedding.

Maybe it was nothing, but I would have respected your feelings. Sometimes kids take a dislike to someone for no reason, but sometimes they sense something is wrong.Better to be safe. Besides, kids should have some rights.If you were so uncomfortable you preferred the bathroom, then that alone should have been reason enough to find you somewhere else to go.WHether you had a valid reason or not, you were still uncomfortable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2011 08:38PM by bona dea.

I was forced to attend Mormon meetings until I started simply walking out of the building during services. I tried it first when I was six, fleeing primary for a local park. Of course I was punished for that. Then again at twelve, and I caught more flack. Finally at about fourteen I wore my father down and he gave up on me. And I mean he really gave up on me. Ha ha.

they didn't have a praise band! :-) You know, the praise band is always the highlight of my morning at church (my nose is growing like Pinocchio's ...)

I went to church every Sunday & when I was a teen, I would have preferred to stay home b/c it was a small church and most of my older cousins were off in college, so it was dull for me. I attended church sporadically in my 20's and it wasn't till DD was a toddler that I made a real effort to find a church I liked enough to get my ample a** out of bed early on a Sunday morning. My faith hadn't wavered, I just liked sleeping in after a late Sat night!

LOL... no praise bands at the Presbyterian church! Just lots of old hymns and my dad singing solos... I used to stick my fingers in my ears!

I was forced to go to church until I was 24 years old. I wanted to stop going when I was around 6. I really hated church, & only went because I had a few friends there. It felt like the absolute worst chore, especially faking belief. Even when my dad became inactive when I was 13, I was still forced. Even when I was a smaller kid, I had a feeling it was all fake. I never felt 'the spirit'. I never had any idea what anyone meant by that at all. I never had my patriarchal blessing. I never paid tithing after I was 11 or so. I didn't want my hard earned money going towered anything I disagreed with. I knew that I would never visit the temple for anything more than proxy baptisms. Outside of church, I didn't even want to be known as a member. I was always scared someone would find out. Serving as a Primary counselor for 2 years right out of high school was excrutiating. & then everyone wanted me to to on a mission. I was being prodded to go as badly as any boy. But I stood my ground on that one. Starting when I was about 22, I was able to get out of going to church more & more because of work, having to take care of my grandmother at my grandparents' house. Then after the whole Prop 22 debacle, I only went to church about 3 times before quitting altogether. I couldn't take it at all. The thing that makes me most angry is that everyone thinks that I'm going to come back to church one of these days, that I'm just rebelling. All I can respond to that is 'WTF?!?'

I was forced to go to church, and when I got to be 16, I refused to go anymore. As an adult with children, I made a few attempts to get with the program, but stopped completely about 5 years ago, and officially resigned 21 Jan.

dodgegw@ldschurch.org

My oldest son quit going about 5 years ago, and youngest last year, although they have been trying to pin him down for the "mission interview" since he turned 19 in January.

I never had/bore a testimony, and I quit giving prayers even when asked, in 6th grade.

My MIL is doing this to my youngest SIL- 18 years old, not interested in church but is forced to go. She even graduated from high school a semester early (back in December) and is now in her first semester of college. My MIL actually forces her to go to seminary every morning as well!

So much of the mormon church is about peer and familial pressure. I watch my other in-law's who are grown and married explain to my MIL why they didn't attend church (morning sickness, just finished a household move, etc) like they need her approval.

I'm so glad my parents didn't try to force church on me when I became an adult.

Many years ago, when we were TBMs my eldest son, then 14 decided that he didn't want to go to church anymore. Of course we knew better than him and pressurised him to go. One Sunday he walked out of church and all the way home, seven miles, at least, mostly through forest.

A short while later he was at some Stake Youth Activity in a city about an hours drive from here. He argued with the Nazi Stake President about something, again walked out and, we later found out, spent the night in a shop doorway, in the city. Can't remember how he got home, but I do know that we weren't told about his disappearance.

Anyway, after that we realised that he really, really didn't want to go to church and didn't pressure him anymore. Years and years later when his youngest brother, then 14, didn't want to got to church, he didn't go. My husband tried the old, 'he is too young to know his own mind about such an important matter', but I counter claimed with, 'apparently at 8 he had been old enough to make an important decision.'

Now I look back at my eldest son's decision about the church and realise he was the smartest one, seeing through it so young, took me many more years.

European View, it sounds like your oldest son was determined to do his own thing. I'm sure it must have been frustrating when he was growing up, but it's great that you admire and respect his independence now.

The Presbyterian church seems so tame compared to what I've heard and read about Mormonism. My husband has tried several faiths... Mormonism was the last one and he did it mainly because of his ex wife's insistence. She wanted to convert and he thought converting would save his marriage. The church failed to save his marriage and, in fact, has been used as a tool to alienate my husband's kids. They haven't spoken to him or seen him since 2004.

When I met my husband (in a very interesting place online), he was still a believer. He even told me he "knew" the church was true. You can't imagine how happy I was when we were dating and he drank some beer I left at his apartment. The garments came off not long after that and now he sees the church as a big fraud. He has no desire to attend ANY church anymore, though he does still believe in God.

I never liked being a Mormon or doing Mormon home activities either. With different parenting I could have accomplished much more in my youth. But what's done is done. Life improved greatly when I was in charge of what I did and how I lived and thought. What a relief to be free of cultism.