My daughter attended a birthday party of an LDS friend last night at her friend's home. Both boys and girls were invited- all of high school age. Most were LDS with only a handful being non-members which made for some interesting observations for the non-LDS kids. BTW, the parents are ultra-TBM and are a model family for the LDS community.

The parents left the kids alone for the most part which allowed the kids an unfiltered environment in which to converse openly about a variety of topics. Of course the church was the main topic and from the sounds of things the leaders have lost touch with their youth. My daughter observed and related some of her thoughts. Again, these topics were talked about throughout the evening. For instance:

1. They are not concerned with their Bishops' interviews. They have figured out a way to lie about things such as chastity or living gospel-centered lives. They tell their bishops what he wants to hear and he is none the wiser.

2. They don't like what the church has done to the GLBT community. A lot of them have gay friends at school and don't understand how a biological condition that someone was born with makes them any less of a person than someone who is born with Autism or blind. One girl specifically asked how god could single out gay people while accepting someone who was mentaly retarded because they were both born that way and can't change how they are.

3. The time requirements, especially for early morning seminary, are taking a toll on the youth. Many of them are involved with athletics, student leadership, AP classes, and other clubs and causes and the church makes it a drag to be involved. Seminary and mutual take priorities over school and the kids are having to choose between getting extra help before school or going to seminary. One of the kids told my daughter that she is lucky and that he is never going to make his kids to go seminary if they don't want to. Their parents make church activites a priority and the kids resent it.

4. Morality and sexual promiscuity are happening on a daily basis. Petting, necking, and oral sex are common between members and non-members alike. They are more afraid of the STD consequences than the "eternal" consequences. The 'stay chaste and don't be a licked cupcake' lessons don't mean anything anymore. In fact, they were calling each other "licked" throughout the night. I didn't ask what that meant but I can only imagine.

5. Constant joking, "That's what she said", ending every sentence with "in the shower" or "in bed" is common. There is a very heavy sexual undertone in every conversation and they choose words that can have double meanings.

6. The parents made them have the blessing on the birthday cake and ice cream. One of the girls joked about the sugar and preservative-laden food strengthening and nourishing their bodies and doing the good they need.

My daughter came home and after she and I discussed what she had heard and observed she made the remark that it seemed that the kids were going through the motions for their parents and Bishops and that they have learned to play the game and give the adults the answers they want. It's not the church that she remembers being a member of for part of her life.

Finally, she said that the kids act one way at school and another way when they are around each other. At school they all are known as the "Mormon kids" and they act goody-goody and holier-than-thou. But when they are away from the "every member a missionary" charade and with each other they are completely different people.

I licked my DW's cupcake last night.

I hope this isn't just a case of confirmation bias on my part, but this is exactly what I have suspected was the case, particularly in California. I think CA Mormon teens have to be the most cynical people in the world.

And in 25 years, they will be the mid level leaders of Mormonism. I'd say the prospects for the future religious success of Mormonism are in serious question.

As a land holding company, LDS Inc will probably do OK.

Brother of Jerry wrote in part:

"And in 25 years, they will be the mid level leaders of Mormonism. I'd say the prospects for the future religious success of Mormonism are in serious question."

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The best evidence we have now says that when people become parents, they fall back on the positions taught to them by their parents. This doesn't always happen, but it happens a majority of the time.

Brother of Jerry is insightful and correct; as for the response of blindguy, well, he said it himself--he is BLIND.

The basic transcendental doctrine is fine; the values concerning self-reliance, work ethic, honesty, Christian service, etc. are noble and much needed; the Church accomplishes many good things in the world. BUT THE ORGANIZATION IS MADE UP OF FALLIBLE HUMAN BEINGS, AND NOBODY CALLS THE "AUTHORITIES" TO ACCOUNT. It is in the vast middle-management bureaucracy that that "authority" becomes the power that corrupts.

Kids, like all sensitive animals, instinctively know where they are safe and where they are threatened. No wonder they dodge the bishops' questions and assume the roles that will protect them--both at school and at home. Somebody should liberate them from that pattern, though, before their "goody-goody" public arrogance FURTHER damages the world's assessment of the Church and permanently curtails the good that the Church does accomplish in the world.

HOW ABOUT SOME RECOVERY FROM WITHIN? WHAT IF THE TWELVE WERE TO SHAKE DOWN THE MISSION PRESIDENTS WHO ARE BAD EXAMPLES, THE STAKE PRESIDENTS WHO ABUSE THEIR BUSINESS RELATIONSHIPS, THE BISHOPS WHO ARE NOT TRUSTED BY THE KIDS IN THEIR WARDS BUT WHO TURN IN THEIR STATS ON "INTERVIEWS COMPLETED" WITHOUT EVER LISTENING TO THE INTERVIEWEES BECAUSE THEIR GOAL IS TO ADVANCE UP THE POWER STRUCTURE?

HOW ABOUT SOME MORE PARENTS LISTENING TO THEIR KIDS AND ENCOURAGING THEM TO TELL THE TRUTH AS THEY SEE IT? HOW ABOUT SOME MORE PARENTS WHO THEMSELVES TELL THE TRUTH AS THEY SEE IT? HOW ABOUT SOME ENCOURAGEMENT FROM WITHIN FOR MEMBERS TO ACTUALLY SEE--without excusing and without telling themselves that their "leaders" must have better judgment than they themselves have about what takes place before their very eyes?

How about reminding ALL MEMBERS about "personal revelation" and following what you yourself know to be right--by tuning in to your own God-given sensitivities, as kids instinctively do, and (forpetesake) as Joseph Smith apparently was trying to do when he started praying for his own personal guidance--WITHOUT DEFERRING TO ANY ORGANIZATIONAL EDICT. No matter what you make of the mythology that has arisen around him, you have to admit that even if it began as the innocent seeking of a pure heart for truth, it certainly got corrupted by the maelstrom of human organization and the aura of power.

Who among us has the courage to examine our own hearts until we find the purity that is the Light of Christ and then to follow that--without regard for pleasing some "authority" and without allowing our temporal lusts and jealousies and desire for status and approval to interfere with that clear vision?

Okay, then, at least let's foster that courage in kids who still may be guileless enough to do so.

true-to-the-truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The basic transcendental doctrine is fine; the
> values concerning self-reliance, work ethic,
> honesty, Christian service, etc. are noble and
> much needed; the Church accomplishes many good
> things in the world.

> (forpetesake) as Joseph Smith apparently was
> trying to do when he started praying for his own
> personal guidance--WITHOUT DEFERRING TO ANY
> ORGANIZATIONAL EDICT. No matter what you make of
> the mythology that has arisen around him, you have
> to admit that even if it began as the innocent
> seeking of a pure heart for truth, it certainly
> got corrupted by the maelstrom of human
> organization and the aura of power.

first post at rfm - shouts at people - thinks mormon doctrine is "fine" and that TSCC is "good" and that JS was "innocent"

someone is going to have a tough time...

phony and dishonest.

In talking to my kids, sometimes I wonder if the LDS kids are more sexually permissive than the non-LDS.

How *interesting* this is for me to read. I am a youth in NJ, and this is not the case at all out here. The kids are even more conservative than their parents, and would NEVER even make out until they're married. I'm honestly glad to hear that there are actually normal kids in the church, but I think it's unfortunate that the church has taught them to lie and deceive.

Sigh.

I grew up and still live here in NJ. I have to say this article is actually pretty acurate. I can remember about 10 years ago when we did multi- stake activities/ dances, this type of behavior was prevalent. Everyone would act one way around the parents/ leaders and another when they seperated into cliques. About 1/3 of the people I went to church with in my age group are no longer active.
I think it's still pretty on point now considering the kids I taught in primary are now in high school and post some crazy stuff on fb. One of the girl's went to a church dance and she alluded to the fact that her and another girl pre-gamed. I found that totally wild. lol.

Really!? How interesting. I am in a very small yw's group - there's like 11 of us. And I'm almost positive that nothing goes on there haha.
I'm not sure about other wards though. I know that I've had 2 friends (Mormon) who have had kids, but I thought that was waywayway out of the norm. I was in the Presidency for girl's camp (the youth leaders: LITES), and even there I didn't catch this going on. Maybe they just keep it from me cause I come off as a prude because I've never had a boyfriend (little do they know it's because I'm gay and I'm waiting until I'm away from the church to do anything about that haha).

I grew up in Mesa, AZ and Mormon kids were always the worst behaved. Binge drinking, sex, and drugs were all too common and they were experts at lying to their parents.

I would tell my parents and they were not surprised. They are acting out against all the stupid rules. I don't know, the only rules I had as a teen were get good grades and call if I was sleeping over at a friends. My parents trusted me to make good decisions and that meant the world to me.

It's kinda ironic that these same kids I grew up with are the most straight edge, judgmental, rabid TBMs as adults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 12:48AM by goldenrule.

I staffed a Boy Scout summer camp and there was another Mormon kid there. He didn't know my background so he participated with other staffers in binge drinking and such.

We all asked him how that fits in with his religion and he said that "It's ok until before you go on your mission, just repent and you're all good." I bumped into him at Stake Conference a month before he was to leave on his mission; his eyes got real big and he quickly walked away from me. That gave me a real good laugh.

I don't understand what they're thinking? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Similar sense of humor when the adults weren't around, etc, etc.

One possibility your daughter might want to consider is that the kids in question are sometimes attempting to act more "worldly" among each other...that was certainly the case for me, since I was raised in a very strict home. I got together with friends and tried to make up for it. A lot of talk, especially if a non or less active girl was there we were trying to prove we were just as cool as, but usually very little substance to back it up, since it would have led to shunning.

Still, got my first lesbian kiss out of that mess, so I'm not complaining.

In 25 years these kids won't be in mid-level leadership positions in the LDS church. They won't be in the LDS church at all. It their young adult years they will leave Mormonism altogether. Why should they stay? There is nothing in it for them. If they care about religion at all, they either already have looked on the internet and figured out that it is all a crock, or they will do so in the near future.

Based on the anecdotal stuff I read here, today's teens and young adults are leaving the church en mass. That will have dire consequences for future Mormon growth, as missionary converts are both down and not lasting, and if young people are gone there won't be babies being born into the faith.

I think you are right that the LDS church can be a successful land-holding company (and media operator and mall-owner), but it isn't going to be these kids who will be staffing the management positions.

sophia
------
>Why should they stay? There is nothing in it for them.

Wouldn't this question apply better to youth whose only tie to the church is their parents? That makes the break much easier than one whose entire family belongs to COJCOLDS, and has belonged to the church for several generations.

/advocate off

Maybe they never truly believed, or understood the lessons being taught to them in SS, SM, SC and GC, viewing it more like school (boring and dreary, not applicable to them and just a 'spiritually masturbatory' exercise forced upon them by their parents). If that's the case then, I'm envious, because I believed.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 09:14AM by Strykary.

The son of the LDS royal family in our stake was definetly not chaste. One day at girl's camp all of the girls over 14 in the ward were together talking and we all discovered that he had gotten to at least 2nd base with all of us except one girl. She was the ultimate Molly among us. Her response was that she didn't understand why he didn't try with her. She broke down in tears and wondered why she was so unattractive to everyone. (she was not unattractive just percieved as very righteouse)
The youth who didn't falter simply wondered why they aren't invited to join the rest of us.

I was the perfect little mormon girl--probably the only virgin amongst all my friends. They are all rabid TBMs now and I'm out.

When my mother told me about one of my friend's husbands being called as a bishop, I told her, "If I wasn't already out, that would do it for me."

My cousins who ran the "best little whorehouse" in my hometown now get up at family reunions and bear their testimonies. One is going on a senior mission with her husband. Her first husband served time in the state pen.

Soooo--from my experience, almost to a person--the ones who are the wildest are the rabid TBMs to come.

This has been my exact experience as well, right down to having been a holy rollin' molly to an exmo today. And my stepsisters, who had the revolving bedroom doors, are now raging TBMs.

There's a reason at least some of these will turn hardcore TBM, maybe become bishops, stake presidents, etc. in the future. There's a point in some of these teens' lives when they realize that in order to be popular in the adult world, you have to hold some sort of leadership position. So many of them will still play the game as adults (only the game is a different one this time), just so they can remain popular among their community.

BTW, I was one as well who took the church very seriously in my early life. And I'm out now. The sort of hypocrisy these teens practice really makes me sad. But I guess it doesn't surprise me since it was happening when I was young as well.

Anyway, I realized those outside of the church who drank, had sex, etc. were more righteous than those inside it who lied about these things. Because at least the former were not misrepresenting themselves.

Mormon Troops, bar none, were the most hated of all Troops at Summer Camp here in Texas. By-and-large they are unruly, smartassed, little fucking twits. Every summer one of them (at least) would get the shit beat out of him because he was being a dickhead to some other troop that was out there for the right reason.

Camp leaders hate LDS Troops. End of story.

Ron

Did you staff a camp in BAC, or SHAC, Ron? If you don't mind my asking of course. We may have bumped into each other at some point. You're right, though. Staffers at our council camp and staff at Philmont absolutely detest Mormon troops. They have Mormon weeks at the PTC in Philmont, it's a nightmare, especially for the female, college age rangers. I've heard some horrifying stories about outright sexism from youth and adults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 11:05PM by Strykary.

Mormonism is supposed to be such a great place to raise children that even those who stopped believing stick around for the sake of the kids. The truth is, it's not all that great, and it's not the only place that believes in conservative standards of behavior.

And she told me during my last hair cut that she is going to have her 20 old brother move out of Utah to my liberal, west coast mid-size city so he can be around good values. Without missing a beat, she said that a lot of her high school Mormon friends got pregnant early before marriage and are now in miserable relationships at a young age. She wants her brother out before he falls into the same trap.

it would be interesting to get this group of teens together in 10 years and see what they're up to at that time.

These types of kids may be on their way out, but I'm sure that some of them will stay in the church because it's all they know. Like many other people mentioned, I never did anything bad when I was young, followed the rules to a T. In fact, I was so naive as to think that no one else was doing anything bad either. Come to find out, I may have been the only person who kept her virginity before marriage, never did drugs, drank, etc. After I left for college, the entire group of deacons in my ward got caught with weed.

Now most of those people won't even talk to me because I'm no longer a member. You hate to remind them that they sucked at life when they were younger because that's just what teenagers do. The church is not even recognizable to me anymore, and I've only been out for 5 years. I imagine that in time it will become just as corrupt as Catholicism, the other religion which claims to have priesthood power. With power comes a lot of responsibility, but most people will use that (perceived) power to trample all over other people.

"Mormon teens have to be the most cynical people in the world." - and RIGHTLY SO.

How many times have we heard, "But, how will we ever be able to raise the kids without the church?"

Ain't that the truth.

And then they will turn into adults, go on missions, go to BYU and grow up to be good little Morgbots.

They just sound like typical teenagers. I don't know how many young people I knew who I was shocked to find out "went back to the church" after they got they've sowed their wild oats and their rebellious youthfulness has run its course.