I am going to go to priesthood tomorrow and want to be able to ask some good questions in the lesson about LDS ideas about truth.

The lesson is predictable: we should learn all truth, but especially the "truths" of the revealed gospel; we learn those through the scriptures and prayer; we learn more as we do what we are told; etc.

I was going to bring up D&C 93 and how its definition of truth is this:

"...truth is a knowledge of things as they are, and as they were..."

and point out how it makes no sense to equate truth with knowledge because then all truth is subjective and there is no truth aside from what people know, etc.

But if any of you have questions I could realistically ask to get people to think a little, I would really appreciate it. I want to do a little missionary work tomorrow haha.

It would be good to compile a nice pile of "verbal ammunition" to "shoot over the bow" of Sunday's lesson. Assuming everyone has the same lesson... And is not that the point of correlation?

you know:
Joseph marrying 14 year olds (giggity giggity)
Joseph's history of money digging (cha ching)
The current location of the golden plates (the dog ate my homework)
Masonic influences in the temple ceremony (nice handshake)

Shall I go on?

"Somethings that are true are not very useful" - - Boyd K. Packer

NoToJoe (unregistered) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Somethings that are true are not very useful" - -
> Boyd K. Packer
^^^^
Ooh, use the talk "The Mantle is Far Far Greater Than the Intellect", that is where the quote comes from.

Yes, but I have to walk a fine line. I don't want to seem disingenuous and get people to close down. I could point out so many "truths" that have changed, even things that Joseph Fielding Smith said himself (as the lesson is about him), but I worry that it will be too strong and raise people's hackles.

Ask if truth is so precious, would we Mormons want to know things from the past that are true but are potentially uncomfortable for some because they may not fit the narrative some expect of the church. Bring up the essay on racism and priesthood to elaborate, and show how even prophets and the church can withhold blessings and saving ordinances from people simply because of precedent. And how this shows even they can have limited sight, which ends up hurting people. Could bring up how Elijah Abel was affected by it all and died alone being denied by the first presidency because of racism, instead of being able to get his endowment.

This underscores the need for the individual to have communication with god since the prophet and church may not be ready for the truth but individual members may be far more enlightened and in-tune.

Edmond Dantes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask if truth is so precious, would we Mormons want
> to know things from the past that are true but are
> potentially uncomfortable for some because they
> may not fit the narrative some expect of the
> church. Bring up the essay on racism and
> priesthood to elaborate, and show how even
> prophets and the church can withhold blessings and
> saving ordinances from people simply because of
> precedent. And how this shows even they can have
> limited sight, which ends up hurting people.
> Could bring up how Elijah Abel was affected by it
> all and died alone being denied by the first
> presidency because of racism, instead of being
> able to get his endowment.
>
> This underscores the need for the individual to
> have communication with god since the prophet and
> church may not be ready for the truth but
> individual members may be far more enlightened and
> in-tune.

I love your screen name. I have been a Alexander Dumas fan since about 1965. The Count of Monte Cristo is my favorite book of all time.

Seriously off topic, but well played!

Sterling

Sterling, that is my favorite Dumas book too.

Try to work the following into the conversation:

Ask the instructor to read 3 Nephi 11:38-40 out loud...then tell them that if they believe what "Jesus" just said, that teaching, trusting, and participating in LDS temple ordinances is evil.

If you wind up doing this, I would really appreciate your posting their responses.

Thanks in advance.

ICEMAN

Yeah even the chapter heading in 3 nephi 11 says: "Christ’s doctrine is that men should believe and be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost"

I'd never really caught onto that...

Ask them if they agree with Mr. Packer

"Some things that are true are not very useful"

https://si.lds.org/bc/seminary/content/library/talks/ces-symposium-addresses/the-mantle-is-far-far-greater-than-the-intellect_eng.pdf

First caution
There is no such thing as an accurate, objective history of
the Church without consideration of the spiritual powers
that attend this work

second caution
There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church
history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or
faith promoting or not.
Some things that are true are not very useful.

Third caution
In an effort to be objective, impartial, and scholarly, a writer or a teacher may unwittingly be giving equal time to the
adversary.

^^^This is excellent

If it's about J Fielding Smith then ask about his assertion that men would never land on the Moon

You could bring volumes of stuff that JFS wrote and be given the bums rush out the door. Truth? Not only was he full of baloney, but members of the church don't want other people to hear or talk about his writings. Nevermind that his rantings were considered to be Gods word for decades.

So...
Any update on how your lesson went last week?

A TBM's truth according to what you said is that Truth is knowledge of how things are (WHAT they are told to believe) and what things were (What they have been told since birth). Ask if being told something is truth. Pick any statement - something about the continents, rivers, a medical question and ask if someone gives you a statement do intelligent people just accept it for verify it? Ask if people should do some reading on the various topics to see if they were told accurate information. If so they will stick with the truth. IF not, they will not be happy and will continue to do research.