I told a church member friend of mine about my disbelief a couple days ago. We didn't get into any details about what I don't believe anymore, he said he didn't want to get into specifics. He did say however, that he also doesn't believe many of the things taught in the LDS church. He said he goes because he has to have that foundation, that moral compass. He also said, he continues to attend just in case it's true. He said, even if it isn't true, then I led a good life and that God would treat him well in the afterlife.

I then told him the line that's quoted here from time to time, the one that goes something like, "The good things about the church aren't unique, they can be found elsewhere. The unique things about the church aren't good." At least I think that's how it goes, please correct me if I'm wrong on the wording.

We then talked about ways the church damages families and individuals. He didn't disagree with me but he returned to his statement that he has to go to have that guidance even though he doesn't believe EVERYTHING.

I can see how that belief can work for some people, I can imagine some of my TBM friends are really NOM's in many ways, they just stay because they're comfortable and they do it "just in case".

sounds a lot like Paschal's wager.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> sounds a lot like Paschal's wager.

Yep, and since we are all going to Muslim hell anyways, it doesn't matter which Christian religion we belong to.

Does he hedge his bets while ignoring the active political bigotry of the Mormon church. That's the best social club he can find? Not very clever, even if he is well-educated. One of those weak in character types.

That kind of thinking makes me a bit crazy, especially when it comes to Mormonism. Mormonism is set up as The One True Church™, literally The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ on Earth™. It's all or nothing with Mormonism. Either it's all true, or none of it is true. So when people say they don't believe EVERYTHING (as you put it), I want to shake them and ask how they can be so dense. If they think parts of Mormonism are not true, then the entire foundation of it crumbles, because then it can't be the alleged perfect gospel that God himself allegedly restored to Earth, and it can't be led by a True and Living Prophet™ who is led by Jesus Christ. So then why bother with it at all?

I have actually talked to quite a few people who live by Pascal's Wager. If you really get into a deep conversation with religious people, they'll often admit that they choose to believe because they're hedging their bets. They think that if they profess to a belief in God, then they're safe as far as the afterlife goes. And then if it turns out that death is really the end, they've lost nothing.

My response to that is first, to ask them if they've ever heard of Pascal's Wager. Usually, they haven't. And then I ask if they've ever thought about the possibility that they could die and encounter a God who is REALLY pissed that they spent their entire life believing in the wimpy, jealous, narcissistic God of Abraham. What then? Or what if God turns out to be a Goddess who sends them to hell for advocating for a misogynistic asshole God? There are plenty of other God possibilities than just the God of Abraham (and there are other God of Abraham possibilities too, like Allah, who probably isn't that happy with Christians!). Usually they have only engaged in the black and white thinking that gives them the false dichotomy of God of Abraham vs Nothing, and have never given any thought to the possible consequences of believing in the WRONG God. Or what if the God of Abraham IS the real one, but it turns out that he rewards people who used the brains and critical thinking capabilities that he blessed them with? What if the people who go to hell are the ones who wanted others to do the thinking for them, and blindly followed whatever they were told? What if the parable of the talents really means that you should use what God gave you, and passing the test requires thinking your way out of the blind obedience that religion requires of you?

Also, people who believe "just in case" are really admitting that they don't believe at all, if you think about it. Whether they can admit that to themselves is a different story.

Exactly. Hedge ALL the bets, brothers and sisters, if that's what you're in it for.

Hold Your Tapirs Wrote:
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> He said he
> goes because he has to have that foundation, that
> moral compass.


That's because he has bought into Mormonism's (and most religions') lies that he has no innate moral compass, that he needs someone telling him not to kill, rape, steal, etc. and that he needs the threat of eternal misery to keep him in line.

Ya know, I'm an atheist and I wondered WHY I keep rapin' and killin' and stealin'. Now I know.

Is it really moral of someone not to care about truth? This is the kind of person who has a sliding rule about ethics. Lazy people opt for the "just in case" route because they don't want to do the work it would involve to sit back for a moment, reflect on what their own values are, not the ones assigned to them, and live according to what they discover about themselves.

Sounds like NOM Mormonism is a lazy, weak way to go thru life. Never authentic, never brave, never happy.

your friend might like this video:

"I've Converted To EVERY Religion (Just In Case)"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJpZOljjG8&list=PLB205ED5D6CDE8AE1

Reminds me of another person taking this approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXotZjTJ1_g

starts about 3:10

I stay in case my well dries up and there might be gold at the bottom.....or now theres same sex marriage (im 42) the next logical step is polygamy has to be legalized and I know that just on the interest earnings of my money Ill have a hot to trot one every night and she will be obedient.....can you say pearl necklace?

I come from a family of inheritance-believers. The larger Daddy's warchest, the more righteous they.

We have some of those too.

"The good things about the church aren't unique, they can be found elsewhere. The unique things about the church aren't good."

WOW, that is a great line. Says it all.

I don't go, just in case it's not true.


I thing my odds are better than his.

If you still think that god might, however unlikely, ask for passwords and handshakes before letting you into heaven, you still belong to Mormonism.

I dont go incase its not true.

^^^Yup.