I don't understand, with so much information at everyone's finger tips, how is it possible to stay Mormon? Do you just avoid going online? What is it? How the hell do people just not read? They couldn't actually be reading anything if they are still believers. Since the Internet came out in 1994 (or 5) religious people have been dropping like flies sprayed with pesticide.

The claims of the book of Mormon (and all of the church's doctrine for the matter) are so retarded, to believe this bullshit you have to damn near belong on the retard bus, or just be very lonely, or of course have this bullshit injected into your brain while your head is still soft.

Looking at my nephews missionary farewell invite just makes me cringe a little.

This is how:

http://www.ostrichheadinsand.com/images/ostriches-head-in-sand.jpg

In this information age........

There are people who believe in Homeopathy

There are people who believe the moon landings were faked

There are people who believe Elvis is alive (or was long after his official death certificate date)

There are people who believe the US government arranged for the death of John Lennon

There are people who believe the holocaust never happened

In short, Facts will never sway a true believer

Facts may not sway some of the deluded but MOST Mormons DONT EVEN KNOW THE FACTS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Mormons have somehow managed to remain COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to the historical and doctrinal problems of their OWN religion DESPITE it all being right at their fingertips for nearly TWO DECADES.

Satan is VERY real and powerful in Mormonism, and when you've had it pounded into you your whole life that the most important thing for satan is destroying the church, you avoid exposing yourself to his influence. It is brainwashingg.

I fell into this category (BIC, age 37) until late last year when I found out about church history issues. The problem with me is that I knew that information was out there, but being TBM, it was "anti-Mormon lies". So being a good TBM, I consciously avoided it.

So I wouldn't be so hard on folks. What they need to see is that well-meaning and credible individuals have found out information and have made a decision to leave based on that information. I think that will make folks think twice about dismissing it as "anti" material. I hope to be such an example.

I can be hard to the point that it is willful ignorance and add that the willful ignorance is willing create a marriage, create children, and then persist in this vicious cycle even after the willful ignorance has been penetrated by knowledge of a proven fraud.

The hard work has been done. It is bandwagon time. Willful ignorance is a choice in the Information Age and passing it to spouses and children is a dark choice. Now is the Season for Mormonism to begin to shrink beyond regeneration.

The proven fraud is exposed. The willfully ignorant are now buoying it up through their own individual weaknesses of character irrespective of Mormonism.

Pain and fear are understandably avoided, but not understandably avoided to the extreme of allowing a fraud to dictate terms of your life.

Now is the time to leave Mormonism. Not tomorrow. The train has been built, powered, and loaded. The train is leaving the station.

Agree
Be hard if they look at it, and then reject it.
We only found it last year.
Kids, life, busy.

Moreso, as believers, why would we need to look at stuff we didn't believe in, or know was half truths.

I saw so much anti on my mission I said I'd seen it. And so much of that was Baptist anti lds doctrine, it was counter productive.

I honestly thought of seen all the anti.

To look st it, and consider it, well, that's sayingng to god "I'm now investigating you, and all those experiences I had"

That's a tall order

A lot needs to be unwound to get to that place.

Most of the Mormons my age that I knew growing up knew just as much about what anti-Mormons (I hate that phrase) said and wrote about them as I did. There was very little about my religion, warts and all, that I didn't know.

Some of them are out and some of them stayed.

They are indoctrinated since birth that the church is true, don't believe anything else because it is Satan out to get you and/or anti-mormon lies. Trust us.

It's the same as people raised from birth to be white supremacists usually remain with those beliefs. Mormonism is a white supremacist group, just not as violent as the radical fringe of that group.

it's a social organization

I disagree. It is a false religion that meets socially constructed needs of individuals who rather than be exceptional, prefer to believe they are pre-ordained to be exceptional.

As a social club alone it fails. If a fraud cult is a social club, then it is a social club.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2014 11:25PM by gentlestrength.

False religion? I'm not sure what that even means. I assume that if there is a defined false religion then there must be a defined true religion, no?

This is from a TBM conversatin I had with someone a couple days ago. Just a couple excerpts:

"Logic can't beat my testimony"


"Sir, with all due respect, I suffered through a trying time in my life. I looked at that site (mormonthink.com) and believed it. I also looked at other sites and believed those as well. The trying time I mentioned arrived, and I tried to find solace in those sites you have mentioned. I could not. The only place I could find solace and peace was in prayer, studying my scriptures (Doctrine and Covenants, Bible, and Book of Mormon), as well as reading the talks given by today's prophets, seers and revelators. The topics those sites include are speculation by man, not truth of God."






Most of my TBM friends and family just think kit's all anti mormon lies, partial truths and things taken out of context. They know all this shit is out there but are scared to death to actually look at it. And if they do look at it they assume it's all lies of the devil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2014 05:13PM by wolfsbane.

I had a conversation with a TBM friend last night and she basically said that just because it's written doesn't make it true. I told her I believe that goes both ways.

TBM's either don't know all the controversial issues because they've been forbidden to investigate or they believe that it's people making stuff up to discredit the church.

Well, they can't. They mostly don't.

Most mormons have left. At least, more mormons have left than have stayed.

The same way a billion plus Muslims do, despite all evidence that Mohammed was just as much a schemer as JS. Mohammed saw angels and wrote books.

The same way a billion plus Christians do, despite no evidence of any human being ever being 'resurrected.' Also despite the foggy-at-best gospel he left behind.

The same way 10M+ JW's do, despite being wrong several times as to when Christ was coming back.

It's simple, really: You know what you're born with. By the time you're old enough to critically evaluate it, you're so accultured to it that anything else seems wrong.

Alpiner, you said what I was going to say. Now I'm going to have to take a slightly different angle. :)

Well, I was at BYU when I first became aware that things were not as I had been taught. I asked a fellow student if he was aware that the angel that appeared to Joseph Smith was Nephi and not Moroni. He replied rather forcefully: "Look. I believe what I believe and I don't want to be told otherwise!"

Now you know why they stay.

Wow

What a true believer does is Believe! Nothing else matters. No truth that contradicts their current paradigm is either acknowledged or accepted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2014 08:54PM by thedesertrat1.

"The claims of the book of Mormon (and all of the church's doctrine for the matter) are so retarded, to believe this bullshit you have to damn near belong on the retard bus, or just be very lonely, or of course have this bullshit injected into your brain while your head is still soft."



There are much better comparisons than the one you used, and the fact that you think that not using the comparison is just PC shows a tad bit of immaturity. That comparison is deeply offensive for very good reasons. Our society has chosen to frown on the comparison because of those very good reasons.

On top of your exceptionally rude comparison you fail to get that most of us, and probably you, used to be Mormon. Are you placing most of us, yourself included, into this category for which you apparently hold some sort of disdain?

Others have pointed out the social and environmental reasons for remaining Mormon. I will content myself with being incensed at your language in-spite of your considerate warning that you were going to say something insensitive.


Edit because apparently I didn't swear. So damn or sh!t or something like that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2014 08:47PM by jacob.

They don't look at the information. They're not only taught not to look at it, but they're taught to be afraid of it.

The first time I landed on an ex-Mormon website, I was actually shaking, like evil was present and I shouldn't be there. I kid you not.

But I was welcomed with open arms by warm and friendly people and I quickly lost that fear. It took several tries to be able to stay in long enough to say, "Hello," to anyone though.

People think that it is the internet that is making this huge dent in Mormonism. That somehow only now in history, for the first time ever, has information been available to people.

The truth is that information has always been available. When I was young, before the internet was a big deal, I remember reading anti-Mormon books at my local book store. If someone wanted the same information that the internet provided, it was readily available (assuming a person could read and actually wanted to learn the info).

Mormons have always been confronted with information that portrayed their religion in a bad light. Ever since the early pioneer days there has been a large and vocal group of people who wanted to proclaim the truth to them. The problem is that many religious people don't want to know the truth. Sometimes they think they want to know the truth, but spend a ton of cognitive energy trying to justify weird beliefs and practices. Even more common is the Mormon who doesn't want to rock the boat, who thinks that Mormonism leads to happiness, and would rather not go through a change in their lifetime.

Of course, there are those who study their way out of Mormonism, but they are the minority and they are already out of the religion. The ones who stayed behind are different than this crowd in many ways and couldn't care less what we might present to them. One day they might join us, but the internet isn't going to help.

Well, as a non-Mormon who lived in SLC for 5 years, whenever I told Mormons about the seer stone, smith's polygamy, etc. I was called a liar and worse. I talked to lots of Mormons, lived with a couple of returned missionaries and was engaged to a Mormon. That particular crowd didn't know it.

I've known Mormons who didn't know about the seer stone. I don't think I've ever met a Mormon who didn't know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist though.

Also, they might have thought you were lying, but that doesn't mean they had never heard of things before. Of course, I don't know the particulars of your situation and have no reason to think you aren't telling the truth here.

Nonetheless, the information was all there and easy to access for anybody who frequented libraries and book stores. Even early Mormons had access to publications about how idiotic their religion and leaders were.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2014 09:52PM by snb.

It was available. I took many trips to the library to read. When I was told it was all anti-mormon lies from the Tanners (who I had never heard of and never read), I referred them to mormon literature from 130 years ago. To my knowledge, no takers. That was puzzling.

Interesting and puzzling for sure. I think that most of the folks who would have enjoyed reading that and absorbing it tend to be the type of folks who are out and probably post on this board or others like it. I think a lot more of those folks go through mental gymnastics and the like to keep themselves in the church for as long as they do. I was more like the latter group.

The others probably aren't ready to move on.

1) They don't have time to research. The church keeps them busy all the time jumping through church prescribed hoops. Raising children, filling callings, giving service, FHE, keeping up the look ... honestly, it's exhausting and there is no time to research what they have been taught.

2) They are afraid to research. They have been taught to fear anything that speaks contrary to the church and that intellectual understanding is inferior to the good feelings of the spirit. They believe Satan uses knowledge to lead people away from what they know is right because it feels good.

3) They have spent their whole lives in the church and can't imagine another way to live. Can't imagine a better way to live. It's all they know so they close their ears to anything that might make them wrong or make them have to face the fact their lives are a lie or substandard or even face change.

4) They are happy being Mormon. So why look at reasons not to be?

These are all excellent reasons. I think that #1 isn't always thought of but is very true. I wonder if this is one primary reason why TSCC keeps TBMs so busy.

They were. 2 needs a 2a, in not just fear of Satan, but fear of god, in looking at this information "why are you doubting me"? "I am denying the holy ghost by even looking at this stuff"

Plus 5, the sensations they get when they read these things..that "trial of faith" moment.

We know it as truth clashing with things they thought were true.

That's scary. How do you cope with that? "What if this isnt true...what am I believing in...s at this point.

Summary, too much to lose.

Until they can feel okay about just being honest about it and putting it back to god.

can it be_this_evil?"

Because they see things in absolutes.

It usually ends quickly once they decide they can objectively look at it all

And then it's "how the Heck did I believe that cr@p"?

That song from the Book of Mormon play about how Mormons just believe brought it home to me. The faithful Mormons represent a minority of humans who have a faith fetish. They would rather believe something than to be shown something.

Missouri is the "Show Me State." At heart, I am a Missourian. I would have been one of the people who drove the Mormons out of the state. Muddle-headed morons who gush over old wives' tales annoy me. I would rather watch Cosmos than listen to some Mormon idiot bad mouth it.

Faith fetish? I might steal that.

Along with the many reasons that others have mentioned, I think many Mormons stay for the simple fact that the LDS church works for them. They like the structure that the church provides for themselves and their children. They like the ready made social network and church youth programs. Many members aren't so interested in the history and doctrine of the church as they are the safety and comfortableness of it.

I think part of the problem is that Mormons are generally confined to relationships with mostly, or sometimes only, relationships with other Mormons. If they had enough time and went out into the world a bit more they would have to know more to defend their beliefs. They would surely look foolish among the real world people. I know Mormons who don't belong to any outside clubs or organizations because they feel so out of place and because they don't have much time with all their church activities and callings.

I also know Mormons who were so uncomfortable in the real world that when they go home after their missions they never go east of the Mississippi for fear of being humiliated.

One thing I've had to learn in life is that not everyone thinks the same way I do. It doesn't make them stupid or in denial. It just makes them different.

Of course, there are people who are stupid or willfully ignorant, but I know a lot of smart, educated people who simply see the evidence differently than I do. I think the evidence against Mormonism is overwhelming and glaringly obvious. They don't. Simple as that.

I guess that's what Joseph Smith counted on when he told people god talked to him thru a rock in his hat.

I have to agree with a lot of the reasons given... we were exhorted our entire lives to avoid anything that even hinted at being "anti." And if it was anti, it was all lies.

Yeah - that could seem "retarded" to some people, but it was MY journey. And as much as I would love to see everyone that I love free of tscc, I understand why it may not be possible for some of them.

When I finally realized it (tscc) wasn't true, my mind argued with itself - the deeply conditioned (brainwashed) part of my mind at war with what I had learned.

Just because tssc isn't true, doesn't mean that EVERY accusation made against it (or against JS) is true. So I continue to study, and I look for multiple sources so that when the opportunity comes to "share" I am certain of my sources. It does nothing to help my cause if I use lies to combat the lies of the church.