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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Didn't want to hijack a related thread.
Does anyone know of an 8 year old that was born in the church, with active parents, refusing baptism?
Supposedly they are free to choose, but at that age they are still completely dependent on their parents, so want to please them. A lot of pressure from family and church.
If they were presented a truly free choice, they would be told they could either go play in the park, or go swimming, or whatever, or go sit in church. And there would be no guilt trips - parents would be happy either way, right?
Does anyone know of an 8 year old that was born in the church, with active parents, refusing baptism?
Supposedly they are free to choose, but at that age they are still completely dependent on their parents, so want to please them. A lot of pressure from family and church.
If they were presented a truly free choice, they would be told they could either go play in the park, or go swimming, or whatever, or go sit in church. And there would be no guilt trips - parents would be happy either way, right?
I wasn't (quite that) ready to run away from home at that age.
M@t
M@t
My own 8-year old son, albeit less active father and NOM mother probably helped sway him. He's a smart kid and even without me really saying anything, he'd formed the view that he really hates church, doubts the existence of God and is convinced that TSCC is a load of BS. His latest quotes from last week:
"Joseph Smith probably just got a lot of money to pretend that the Book of Mormon was true".
"Why bother becoming a member of a church I don't like? I'm only going to give it up as soon as I'm old enough and mum let's me."
His local ward also haven't done much to try and persuade him otherwise. As soon as it was made known that I wasn't giving permission, no one has said a word.
"Joseph Smith probably just got a lot of money to pretend that the Book of Mormon was true".
"Why bother becoming a member of a church I don't like? I'm only going to give it up as soon as I'm old enough and mum let's me."
His local ward also haven't done much to try and persuade him otherwise. As soon as it was made known that I wasn't giving permission, no one has said a word.
I had a Bishop that used to purposely delay baptising the kids until they were 9 so it would count as a convert Baptism. Caused all kinds of havok with his delay tactics and offended lots of active members. .. But the ward was written up in the church news for all the convert baptisms
I delayed for over six months. It was a decent plan, I said I wanted an out of state relative to dunk me. A few months later we ended up moving right by that relative. Sigh. I finally gave in because I was bribed with a new bike. Hey, what can I say? The purple glitter seat sealed the deal.
Purple glitter seat.....at that era who could resist?!?!
My grandson this past year. He was adamant against it, but the ward kept sending missionaries and guilt until my kids gave in ;but my grandson allowed it only in secret to get them to leave him alone. That is what happened and they got a convert baptism which made them giddy ,as well as ,feeling they saved his soul. The child will not use the word baptism. Makes me sick to my stomach to even think of it.
I think I recall a slightly younger boy than me delaying baptism. I can't imagine it was a worthiness or intelligence concern. Hard core TBM family like mine, a little more wiggle room. Probably the father might not have allowed for baptism if his son didn't "know" The Church is True. Probably wore down over time through social pressure.
I do know he has since left the Mormon church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 05:54PM by gentlestrength.
I do know he has since left the Mormon church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 05:54PM by gentlestrength.
Now he's completely out of the church.
Sounds like there's a few, though I would guess a pretty small percentage of 8 year olds with active parents.
I don't count those with an inactive or nonmember parent, as they obviously get more of a real choice.
I don't count those with an inactive or nonmember parent, as they obviously get more of a real choice.
I haven't heard of one. I don't think a kid stands a chance if raised in an active, chapel-mormon family. I always thought it was incredibly dishonest for the announcement about how another little kid's family was so proud because he/she had "chosen" to become a member of the church. <rolls eyes>
I'm sure there's quite a few but the TBM parents just force them anyway. Just like forcing then to go to church and getting their Eagle Scout award. Mormons like to champion the principle of freedom and free agency but they act otherwise.
I knew an 8-year-old whose mother was very active, temple and everything (father deceased), who refused for the funniest reason you ever heard. We all arrived at the chapel and she looked pretty in a white dress and seemed very excited. The closer it got to the time, the more nervous she got. The reason? She was terrified of the water. Her mom talked to her, the bishop tried, but nothing could coax her into the font. Finally we all went home. The little girl grew up and never did get dunked.
Wow! Afraid of water! I wish I had thought of that. What an out! Fear? No Mormondom for you!
Yes. A little 8-year-old girl from a convert family across the street refused to be baptized. My girls were the same age and we decided to "fellowship" her. We invited her over one afternoon to jump on our trampoline (and then we love-bombed her).
I hung around the backyard to try to talk some sense into her but she wasn't having any of it. She finally looked at me with this practical expression on her face and flat-out told me, "I don't think I've done anything BAD enough to have to get baptized!"
Out of the mouth of babes . . . I was stunned into silence. She was right, you know. That was probably my first real cog-dis moment.
;o)
I hung around the backyard to try to talk some sense into her but she wasn't having any of it. She finally looked at me with this practical expression on her face and flat-out told me, "I don't think I've done anything BAD enough to have to get baptized!"
Out of the mouth of babes . . . I was stunned into silence. She was right, you know. That was probably my first real cog-dis moment.
;o)
Me. I was just barely nine actually and the mishies found my mother and reactivated her and baptized me. I was taught the discussions, but didn't really get it and thought I was just visiting with my moms friends. At my baptism I got in white and started crying and said repeatedly that I didn't want to do it. My mom smacked me and told me to stop embarrassing her. I told her And the missionaries that I still didn't want to do it. They all prayed for me to feel the spirit, which I didn't. My mom started to cry, so I got into the water anyway and tried my damnedest to get a toe out of the water so it wouldn't count... *sigh* unfortunately it took for about 20 years :(
My nephew didn't want to be baptized. He's an atheist. He went through it to appease his TBM mother.
No, but I honestly wanted to. I spent the day before planning what I was going to say. When all of my relatives arrived though, I didn't have the guts.
I didn't refuse but I do remember the bishop asking me in my baptism interview why I wanted to be baptized and I told him he because that is what everyone else does when they turn 8. I still remember the look on his face (cog dis because he was a very nice guy and probably thought 8 yr olds were capable of sincerely believing and not just brainwashing). He told me I should think harder about it but he still baptized me anyway (dad was a nevermo)
I love the story about the girl who didn't have sins bad enough to be baptized for. I remember thinking that baptism made more sense if I would have waited until I was much older and could clean some more stuff off my record!although I was also a morbid kid and I also came to the conclusion that it would be better to die before you turned 8 and wouldn't be accountable for anything! Good thing I got out of a religion that would allow a child to think that!
I love the story about the girl who didn't have sins bad enough to be baptized for. I remember thinking that baptism made more sense if I would have waited until I was much older and could clean some more stuff off my record!although I was also a morbid kid and I also came to the conclusion that it would be better to die before you turned 8 and wouldn't be accountable for anything! Good thing I got out of a religion that would allow a child to think that!
At meeting once, a speaker told about how his son did not want to be baptized at age 8. He shared how they chose to respect their son's decision as a conscious effort to allow their son to exercise his agency. He said they did this despite what the Bishop or anyone else had to say about it.
When I got baptized it gave me the courage to jump out my bedroom window in my white dress. It was only a 6 foot drop down a hill, but I'd always wanted to do it and figured my baptism day was my best chance. Did it about 3 more times until my mom caught me crouching on the windowsill.
When I got baptized it gave me the courage to jump out my bedroom window in my white dress. It was only a 6 foot drop down a hill, but I'd always wanted to do it and figured my baptism day was my best chance. Did it about 3 more times until my mom caught me crouching on the windowsill.