Last week, two prominent voices in the progressive Mormon community were notified they face possible excommunication from the LDS Church. John Dehlin is creator of a popular podcast discussing Mormon issues and an advocate for LGBT rights. Kate Kelly is founder of Ordain Women, the group seeking access to the all-male priesthood. Monday, Doug sits down with each to talk about what excommunication would mean to them personally and the reaction they've been getting from their communities.

• John Dehlin, Mormon Stories Podcast and StayLDS.com

• Kate Kelly, OrdainWomen.org


Listen Live http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/facing-excommunication


Program repeats at 7 PM and available via podcast.

Wow we posted the same thing within a minute of each other. Yours is much more informative!

...I felt like the first 15 min. with Joanna Brooks was a waste of valuable time, IMO.

That's how I usually feel when Radio West covers mormonism.

***BANGS HEAD ON WALL***

Is how I feel after listening to Kate. Also I want to give her a hug.

There is NO SPACE in my brain that understands how she can still have reverence for the church and it's leaders. Someone please explain to me how this is possible.

...Doug says Church Representative comes in tomorrow for the hour show. Might be more revealing than today's offering..........

John P. Dehlin received a letter from a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints leader in Logan last Monday that set a June 18 deadline for them to talk.
....
Dehlin says the leader now has agreed to meet with him on June 29 and expressed a "desire for de-escalation" of the conflict.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/5ef4acb5206547e9882b437092e4e546/UT--Mormon-Excommunication

So, what does this mean?
1)The leader played chicken with Dehlin and lost.
What else?

I enjoyed Dehlin's comments. He seemed polite and measured (careful). I learned from this radio interview that it was Elder Holland who was the GA that Dehlin had a private meeting with who told him to stay in the church.

Side note:
Holland is now in the hot seat. He's on the record for telling Dehlin to stay in the church. He's on the record with the BBC interview being caught in a lie and branding himself a dodo. He's on the record with his exchange with Tom Phillips where he did not answer Phillps' thoughtful questions: see http://www.mormonthink.com/files/phillips-holland.pdf Last year when MormonThink put up its free-way sign, it was Holland and Uchtdorf who (reported here on RFM) advocated an emergency release of the essays - ASAP. Holland has the power to stop all this excommunication stuff. His private counsel to Dehlin is now on the line.

I also learned from the interview that Dehlin has heard of reports where GA's and Area Authorities are advising their minions (stake presidents etc.) to weed out the dissenters, i.e. church disciplinary action. All I can think of is that the GAs still have no answers. They're locked into their 20th century thinking that they must control the information and discussion within the church. They don't know how to deal with the massive information explosion available at the click of a computer mouse. They've lost control. In essence, they're in a panic.

To complicate things worse, all they really care about is receiving positive PR at every turn in the road, and these excommunication threats are being discussed with news/radio/TV outlets. TSCC can spend millions of $$$ on "I'M a Mormon Campaigns" etc. and loose every penny and more with this negative PR in one 24-hour newscycle.

Last, I learned it was Dehlin who went to the media and it has made his Stake President "mad." I'm sure he doesn't like his name and letter to Dehlin being dragged all over cyberspace or enjoys the attention because it will reflect how his little flock will view him on whatever the outcome is.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2014 04:29PM by jiminycricket.

I listened and heard what I expected to hear.

John likes the club, has friends who are in the club, has been a member of the club for a long time and wants to stay in the club. He does not, however, believe in the bylaws of the club. The scariest thing he said, is that his daughter was set apart as a member of the Beehive presidency. Look at Kate Kelly, John, she is the face of your daughters in the future. I wish that John would just find a new club. I do think he should let TSCC excommunicate him first, because that will be a black eye for the church.

Kate belongs to a Patriarchal church and she wants equality. As long as TSCC can succeed in organizing a counter group of women who will go to social media and not only praise the quality of their chains, but give advice on how best to polish them, equality inside TSCC will not happen. We don't even have equality in the greater culture. To expect it in the church is, sadly, a little bit delusional. I was about Kate's age during the fight for the ERA. I'm now in my late 60s and we are still far, far from equality in the culture. If I live into my 90s, I may see cultural equality. Given an additional 40 years after my lifetime, Kate may see equality in TSCC. I applaud her for the fight and hope that she has staying power.

I absolutely love her parents.

I believe that if these people are excommunicated, they will take perhaps thousands with them. I don't think TSCC will implode anytime soon, no matter what happens to individual members. I do think that growth will stagnate and then decline and that will be a very good thing.

releve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I believe that if these people are excommunicated,
> they will take perhaps thousands with them. I
> don't think TSCC will implode anytime soon, no
> matter what happens to individual members. I do
> think that growth will stagnate and then decline
> and that will be a very good thing.

It would be interesting to know how many people in my wife's ward have even heard of these people.

Myself and another couple left my ward in a nine month period. I live on the Wasatch front. I don't know about your ex-wife's ward, but with over 29,000 units in the church, if just one person per building (three wards to a building) is affected, you're talking about thousands of people.

My cousin, who is a member, in good standing, in her 60s heard about John and Kate on the radio, in her car, and went out and bought a Tribune, so that she could read about it. That's pretty old school. Curiosity is TSCC's worst nightmare in a case like this. For most people, curiosity is served by a Google search. You never know how many or which links a person might follow, once they make that first search.

those pesky "progressives" just won't go away no matter how many purges !

I have a hard time believing that both John and Kate were blindsided by the church's actions. Seriously, neither one of them saw it coming? I saw it coming from a mile away. I just can't help but think that even though both of them seem highly intelligent, they just still don't see the church for what it really is.

To me, the greatest injustice here is that the church took away the temple recommends of Kate's parents for supporting her. Does anyone know any more about this? What does the church consider "support" in this particular case?

a few more "enemies" and they'll be ready for the September Six Part Two

I'm curious if anyone can corroborate a comment made by "Joe in Utah" on their website, in response to Stephanie.



Stephanie:
You ask several terrific questions. It is probably best to look at the issue from a historical perspective. If you look at conference quotes and other statements from the Twelve and First Presidency (from the late 19th century up through 1978), the LDS Church leadership delivered many, many hurtful/hateful quotes about African Americans. In short, they made it clear that African Americans were cursed and that they would NEVER EVER receive the preisthood. PERIOD!!!
But the LDS Church changed its policy in September of 1978.
A few years before GBH died, he was interviewed by a big national TV reporter in Australia (if I remember the country correctly). Anyway, the reporter asked him about women and the priesthood. GBH said, "We haven't really asked the Lord about that." "Why not," the reporter quized? "I guess there just hasn't been any aggitation for that change," GBH responded.
The MORMON Church changes policies and doctrine periodically. Sometimes the Church just needs some "aggitation".
Best Regards, Joe
3 △

Do any of you Aussies know about the interview of Gordon Hinkley in Australia?

Aggitation, eh? Well, we could give 'em a whole lot MORE regarding history, doctrine, equal rights for women, minorities, secrecy, financial management of a $Billion corporation, etc, etc....

found it:

http://www.abc.net.au/compass/intervs/hinckley.htm

about 2/3 of the way down.

Thanks!! I wanted to be sure it was real before I quoted it.

Only heard Brooks and a mite of John before I had to go to work. Now can't get a "listen" band to show up anywhere. Is this available, and how?

These are issues I've grappled with decades ago when I was X's, not for teaching or advocating against doctrine, but merely for believing certain revelations in D & C and the 1886 Revelation.

I'd say these two courageous should might begin with how people are sent into evanescence rather than changing tenets with such gravitas to the LDS people. Then go for the gravitas.

Only heard Brooks and a mite of John before I had to go to work. Now can't get a "listen" band to show up anywhere. Is this available, and how?

These are issues I grappled with decades ago when I was X'd, not for teaching or advocating against doctrine, but merely for believing certain revelations in D & C, and the 1886 Revelation.

I'd say these two courageous should might begin with how people are sent into evanescence via excommunication,rather than changing tenets with such gravitas to the LDS people. Then go for the gravitas.