I need some help. I just had my son removed off the records of the church because I was told his name went on the records when he was blessed back in 1995. When I removed his record, I found out that he had actually been baptized without mine or my husbands consent in 2005. I believe some of my family members had something to do with this.

I was told, and it's also on my sons record that he was baptized in the Las Vegas Mission. Can someone tell me if St. George, Utah is in the Las Vegas mission as well? How can I find this out?

Thank you very much.

Ohh - I want to do that! I mean remove my children's names, not have them baptized. Did you just send in the regular letter with your son's name on it?

Thankfully I don't think anyone in my family could have baptized my children unless they did it by proxy, since when I visit TBM family I stay with them.

Yes, I sent in a letter to the church headquarters in SLC, with both my son's names and my name, asking that they remove us from the records of the church.

Has anyone actually heard of this happening in the Mormon church before? Can a child be baptized without the parents consent? Can a Grandparent have them baptized? Also, when I child is blessed in the church, is that preperation for baptism? I really need some answers....

St George is NOT in the Vegas Mission. I live in Vegas and know for a fact.

If that's not the case, can someone answer me this question...

Is it possible that my son could have been baptized in St. George, and they just put on his record it was in the Las Vegas mission? I'm so confused!!

That's really strange. Like silhouette said, St. George and Vegas are two separate mission areas (I'm also in Vegas).

I wondered about this happening several years ago, too, and this is why my kids will never visit their TBM grandparents in St. George without us. :( I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

Topping for more info

St. George was not in the mission when I served there. St. George would be in a Utah mission.

Thank you. I'm having such a hard time right now, because I was just told by the Bishop in my ward, that someone baptized my son in March of 2005 without my consent. Does a "child of record" (which my son was, because he was blessed by my father in 1995 when he was a baby), once he turns 8 or 9 automatically get baptized because he's a child of record, and was already blessed? Is a baby blessing preperation for baptism? Could my parents have baptized my son without my consent? Is this possible? If so, that is a HUGE breach of trust! Wow!!

The Bishop told me since I removed my son's name off the record of the church, they destroyed his baptismal record. Is this true? Do they destroy the baptismal record if someone removes their name off the record of the church? First he told me they destroy all the baptismal records after 5 years, and now he said just my son's, because he's off the record of the church.

I would not believe the bishop when he says that the baptismal records were destroyed. The LDS church is fanatical when it comes to record keeping and they destroy nothing. I think he is just backpedaling to save himself from problematic questioning.

A child should not be baptised without both parents consent.
If the ward has baptised him then they have seriously breached their code of conduct - no wonder the records have been 'destroyed'. The record of the baptism will exist somewhere, possibly the ward computer. I think it sounds like the Bishop is trying to cover his or someone else's tracks.

Of course, they keep the records! How else could they put you on probation for a year when you go back or know what your sins were? How would they know that you had been endowed and simply restore your blessings later? How else would they know when a hundred years had passed since your birth and they are free to do your work?

A ward/stake/mission would not automatically baptize your son simply because he was blessed as a baby or listed as a "child of record".

Someone had to initiate the baptism for your son.
And if you were not aware of it, they had to do some fancy footwork to pull it off secretly.

Wouldn't your son remember if he was baptized and by whom?

Very strange - and extremely deceptive if he was baptized without your knowledge or consent.

Glo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Wouldn't your son remember if he was baptized
> and by whom?


I was thinking the same thing...

One more thing I wanted to add here.

My Anniversary is March 2nd. My son was baptized March 5th and confirmed March 6th. My husband and I would usually take our boys to stay the weekend with my parents, while we'd go out and celebrate our anniversary.

I read in the LDS handbook that when they do a confirmation, they like to do it on the first Sunday of the Month, (fast and testimony meeting). March 6th was the first Sunday of that month in 2005.

The dates are completely matching up here. It all leads to my family doing this. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the fact they said he was baptized in Las Vegas, and that my son doesn't recall the baptism. He remembers people talking to him at church when he'd go with my parents, but not the baptism. I'm sooooo confused!

COULD THIS BE CLERICAL ERROR ON THE CHURCH'S PART?? My dad is thinking they made a mistake with my son's name, but if that were the case, why would it have his middle name, and why would mine and my husbands name be on it? it doesn't make sense!

I think they just put Las Vegas Mission, and it was done in St. George. I think it was done purposly, so we wouldn't know it was my family that did this.

As others have pointed out, the church never destroys records. If your child was baptized there is a record of it somewhere. Do you have any lawyer type friends who would be willing to send a note to Salt Lake HQ for some answers?

Stunted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 05:23PM by Stunted.

This is a great idea. Also I would find who in your family did this and kick some wholesale ass. Also threaten to sue the church.. Just my opinion.

Wow, my head is just spinning. Here is the full story, so you all can understand better.

I was baptized in the LDS church when I was 17 years old. I was a convert. Due to some terrible experiences with LDS men, and the missionary who baptized me, I never went a day to church after my baptism.

Just recently, I had a conversation with a very close friend of mine, (who just recently left the church as well) about baby blessings. I told my friend that my boys were both blessed in the church, one in 1995, and the other in 1997. My Dad had asked if he could give the boys each a blessing, and my husband and I reluctantly agreed, and let him do the blessing out of respect to him and his beliefs. My friend had mentioned to me that I should have recieved a certificate of blessing on both kids, and that both their names would be put on the record of the church. I felt so betrayed by my LDS parents that they did this, without letting my husband and I know there would be strings attached to that blessing, that I decided at that point, to write to the Church headquarters, and have my childrens names removed from the records. (My parents are on a mission right now, and even though I was upset about finding this out, and I wanted to confront them, I didn't want to say anything out of respect for their mission).

I ended up writing a letter to the church, and they told me I had to go through my Bisop here in Las Vegas. The bishop honored my request and the church removed my oldest son's name, and my name off the record of the church, but could not find a record for my youngest son, (who was also blessed by my father). I sent my bishop an email, asking why they couldn't find a record for my youngest son, and he wrote me back and asked if Alec had been baptized like Ryan was. At that point I freaked out, and told my bishop that Ryan had never been baptized to my knowledge. I was so surprised by this news, I thought, "how could this possibly happen"???

I was told my son was baptized on March 5, 2005 and confirmed on March 6, 2005. I was also told that it was in the Las Vegas Mission, which doesn't make a bit of sense to me at all. The only LDS family I have live in St. Geroge Utah, and we do spend a lot of time with my family up there. My children have been to church on several occasions with them as well when they were younger. I didn't see any harm in it at all, I trusted my family with my kids.

So long story short, Everyone is denying this could have ever taken place. My son's membership record even shows my husband full name on it, along with my address...How could the church find me? I never wanted them to know where I was living. Someone must have given our information to the ward here. My husband has never been a member of the chruch either...How would they have his full name? It just sounds fishy to me, and I totally believe they are covering up for someone.

I guess my question to you all is this....

Do they throw out any baptismal records, even though his name is now removed from the records of the church? And why can't they find my younger son's record??

Has anyone ever heard of a child being baptized without a parents consent?

My son does not remember being baptized. He said he doesn't remember much when he was 9 years old. Could they have manipulated it in such a way as to make him think it was just some kind of game, so he wouldn't talk about it with us? My parents both knew we didn't care for the beliefs of the mormon church, but maybe they thought they were doing my son a favor by having him baptized. When I showed my son a picture of a baptism on the computer, he said where the man is raising his arm jogged his memory just a little, but he's really not for sure.

When a child of record is blessed, do they ever remove their names off the record, if that child never is baptized? That would explain why they can't find my younger son's record.

If anyone can help me, I'd appreciat it. I thought about hiring an attorney, just to help get the record. My dad is denying it all. He says it just can't happen, and quite honestly, I want to believe what he's telling me is true. I don't know what to do. I feel so broken. :-(

If anyone at all can help me, I would so much appreciate it.
Thank you,

I'm sorry to hear about the dishonest christianity at its finest. It amazes me how TBMs, and a lot of us ex-mos (including myself) managed to justify breaking one commandment to fulfill another. Then again, the first chapter of the BOM talks about killing a drunk dude to steal gold plates, so why not.

Regarding the present situation, I would strongly recommend that you make it clear to your son that he isn't in trouble, that he didn't do anything wrong and that you are not angry with him. IMHO, it sounds like he's trying to deflect out of fear or embarrassment. It could also be that he's trying to avoid a family conflict with parents/grandparents.

Family - isn't it about.. dishonesty? (A message from the crutch of cheese and rice of latter-day aints)

From what I understand, your son's name, and yours also, are still on file with the church, and will remain so, with the notation that you have resigned.

So you are in Vegas, and he was baptized in Vegas? I am thinking it is possible that your dad didn't do it, maybe it could have been some sneaky ward members. But I don't know the protocol.

I am sorry you are going through all this. I can't imagine how violated you must feel.

The bish is lying to her about the "record being destroyed".

Probably because he knows that the baptism certificate would show who baptized the child and who witnessed it.

The baptism could have been performed in St.George and perhaps "Las Vegas Mission" was entered by mistake instead of "Utah".

Or they drove the kid down to Vegas and had him baptized there.
Either way, deception and lies were involved. But why are we surprised?

WHY? They have NO respect for you, why on EARTH would you have respect for their mission?

This situation needs to be confronted sooner, rather than later. Or it will fester.

My best guess Matt would be i'm a total idiot! I've always given my dad and step mom so much respect. My dad is also a convert to this church. I thought they respected me and my decisions on how i wanted to raise my children. I see now they don't.

I DID confront them. I've been talking to them everyday while they're on their mission. They are BOTH denying everything. My dad says this cannot happen. I will NOT back down until I have the truth.

Look.

She says the date checks out for when the g-parents were babysitting.

This is too much coincidence.


I'd say her father is lying and the g-parents had the boy baptized on the sly.

If they were lying to her back then why would't they be lying now.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening before in the Mormon church? I'm just trying to get as much information as I can. Thank you.

It could be a clerical error or overzealous missionaries inventing a baptism that didn't happen. It could be grandparents, but I would check it out before I jumped to conclusions. There should be a copy of the record in Salt Lake. You could give Greg Dodge in the membership department a call and see if he can help you.

Gregory W. Dodge, Supervisor
Confidential Records Section
Member and Statistical Records Division, Thirteenth Floor
50 East North Temple Street Salt Lake City, Utah 84150-3684
(801) 240-2053 or 1-800-453-3860



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 06:41PM by robertb.

Robert, thank you for that information. I just left him a message to call me.

Mr. Dodge has something of a relationship with us exmormons. A number of years ago Cricket (of Salamander Society fame) took up a collection from some of us and delivered a Christmas tree and cards to Mr. Dodge's department.

http://www.salamandersociety.com/x-files/

The story is about half-way down the page.

Well hopefully he'll get back to me and tell me the truth of what happened in my situation. My Dad wants me to stop looking into it, and let him figure it out..I'm having a hard time believing anything a mormon tells me. :/

" I was just told by the Bishop in my ward, that someone baptized my son in March of 2005 without my consent."

Doesn't this "form" have the name of the priesthood holder that did the dunking? The "someone" that the Bish did not name is prolly on that same form. If so ask that guy what happened.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 08:12PM by AmIDarkNow?.

I'm an attorney in Utah. No, its illegal for anyone other than the custodial parents to give consent for baptism. But its not impossible that if your dad was a trusted person in his ward, he could have been taken on his word that he has legal custody, or falsify a consent form.

What you need is the name of the person who baptized and confirmed him! I would be careful not to alert Greg Dodge or others that you're investigating an illegal act by someone but rather that you need this information for personal reasons.

When children whose parents are not attending are baptized, they have to be taught by the missionaries. I imagine that's why it says someting about the Las Vegas mission. It wouldn't say that if his parents were active members. Possibly someone had him taught by missionaries in Las Vegas and baptized on that weekend. Maybe on the same day. Or the person claimed he had been taught in Las Vegas and then baptized somewhere else. who knows. But its much more likely it was a family member than just a ward member.

No way those records are destroyed. they're computerized. They contain the names of the other people involved who held the priesthood and performed the ordinances. Those will be your biggest clues. Good luck.