I wasn't going to post, but I just had to. Today on the drive home, I had an epiphany that made me laugh my ass off. Maybe I'm past the angry stage because it struck me as hilarious, this doctrine that you must be good in order to be saved. It's so funny on so many levels.

First of all, it means people are doomed by nature. But there's an answer: Follow our rules and you will be saved! Don't, and you're doomed. Take your time, no pressure. Har de har har.

Second, it's a glaringly apparent control scheme that combines stick and carrot. Why does being require either? Being is being and measuring a person by their behavior is nonsensical because humans are completely unqualified to judge each other. Most people can't even navigate their own minds, let alone the alien worlds of other minds.

Third, and this was a real gut buster for me, is that being good in order to be saved negates the point of being good in the first place. People should be good because it's who they are. All beings are divine, so goodness resonates with a certain part of them. The purpose is to find that groove. It has nothing to do with behavior or rules.

But the thing is, you were never lost and I was never lost. The divine doesn't get lost nor does it need to be saved. Now, if you develop a pathological need to refuse the divine and relegate yourself to a hell world, that would be your doing, not God's.

Leaving TSCC is like the famous Jefferson Airplane song:

When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joy within you dies
Don't you want somebody to love, don't you
Need somebody to love, wouldn't you
Love somebody to love, you better
Find somebody to love
...
Tears are running down and down and down your breast
And your (TBM) friends, baby they treat you like a guest
...

Where to go next? Follow the goodness inside you, the part that lives beyond rules and dogma. The love groove leads to God like all roads lead to Rome.

About God. Or HF. Or Deity.

Wouldn't a deity rather that you loved Him/Her and wanted to serve Him/Her because you WANTED to, NOT because you were afraid of the consequences if you didn't?

I certainly would.

I don't know that a benevolent god would want you to worship him/her/it at all. That god would probably want you to focus on others. Being good to avoid punishment OR to gain reward doesn't help you become a better person...it makes you fearful or selfish, not good, kind, loving, etc... The church constantly toots their own horn for the relatively little good work that they do. Those at the top should be ashamed.

"Remember what the dormouse said,
Feed your head."

Mormonism will starve your head. Nobody outside of Mormonism will warn you against reading pro-Mormon literature. Read whatever you want, and decide for yourself what to believe. Who is putting limits on feeding your mind? Who has something to lose if truth be told?

I disagree with much of your post, but I certainly can see your points; at one time I would have agreed more than I do now.

I am comfortable that there could be requirements for salvation like doing good. It is a bit of a stick and carrot scenario, but I don't think that fact negates good deeds done with an eternal reward in mind.

I think people should judge one another; in fact, we must for our physical survival and our well being in general. Its a red herring to think one needs to master one's own mind, or be perfect for that matter, in order to judge another.

As far as you claiming what a god would do or wouldn't do, it seems like futile, idle speculation on your part to assume you know what that is.

When the prodigal son returned, his father didn't count his behavior as some kind of currency. He just gave him all the love he had.

We are God and God is us. The Mormon notion of God as an overlord is made up crap that I managed to unlearn. I'm more of a pantheist buddhist rastafarian these days.

I understand about having an epiphany.

One morning, I was drinking my coffee, and I had one.

I savored the taste of the drink in my mouth, and burst out laughing. It almost came out of my nose.

This is supposed to be bad? A simple, non-intoxicating beverage? Why?

There are a myriad of do's and don'ts in Mormonism, and most other organized religions. The dogma and control of the leaders becomes the focal point, not the gospel according to Jesus Christ.

As I've distanced myself from Mormonism, I have found myself choosing to do good, for goodness sake. If a church or government forces people to adhere to their rules, or ELSE, people are acting out of fear, and not natural intention, or inclination.

I was never a fence-sitter about the LDS church. I really tried to be honest and moral, almost to an alarming degree. I got to a place where I couldn't distinguish between church policy, opinion, dogma or gospel. I wanted to do the right thing always, and I just about lost my mind, because I was so afraid of not being good (worthy) enough. Just a dozen years ago, I'd be adamant about never letting coffee or alcohol pass my lips.

It's such a relief to finally be in a place where I realize all these things are the inventions of men, and not necessarily a Supreme Being. I still believe in one, but my Jesus is nice, not like the "mean" Jesus of Mormonism and other faiths who preach fear, not love, and end up contradicting Christ constantly.

No more Pharisees(sp?) for me, no sir. And please pass the splenda; my coffee's getting cold.

To the OP, I completely agree with you. It's the only logical conclusion. The only consistent conclusion. God didn't make up the hamster wheel, people did. And while I do agree that cause and effect are real, and so the carrot and the stick aren't to be denied, and carrots motivate while sticks de-motivate, and that's important; the deeper insight is yours. Goodness resonates with our true self, and acting from that greater self--getting in the groove as you said--makes us joyful and free. Happiness is the true reward.

Thany you all for putting up with me. Gosh, heresy is so much fun.