So, I just came back from my fathers birthday celebration, and while I was there I noticed a fresh, new copy of "Rough Stone Rolling" sitting on my TBM mother's sewing machine. I was rather taken back by this discovery. Although it was written by a TBM I have heard that it contains a plethora of rather inconvenient truths about our dear prophet. For those of you who have read it, I am curious what DM will learn from this book that they never taught her in Sunday School. Has this book collapsed any shelves of people you know? Will DM's faith be shaken? I'm dying to know what she's in for!

I haven't read it yet. My library just put a copy of it on hold for me.

But sadly it might not do anything to shake her faith. I recently heard a group of older TBM's talking about how it was such a wonderful book. All going just as strong as ever.

Oh its a jaw dropper! Tells how the whole tar and feather story, might have been because ol Joe was caught being naughty with the
Johnsons daughter. How they were really trying to castrate him! It tries to rationalize everything, but it was undoing of my faith. It's not that gripping of a read.... I plowed my way through because I had my motivations. But if she actually reads it, she will definitely learn of few new things. Of course the church might just convince her she was already aware of this shit, and it's no biggie.

I'm sure it looks great on the shelf.

Nice pun! ;)

+1

It was enough for my shelf to drop and I was pretty TBM. It covers polygamy (yes, 14 y/o HMK), polyandry, briefly BoA, Kirtland troubles, doubts of the PH restoration account, multiple first vision accounts, treasure digging, rock/hat translation, etc. Bushman lays everything out as fact without drawing too much of a conclusion which was why I was ok as a TBM in reading it in the first place - it was "safe".

For me, I almost put it away and remained TBM. But as I thought about what I had just read, I thought to myself, "I'm not ok with all of that". It was the thinking afterwards that collapsed the shelf.

Now, I've known many TBMs who have read it and are still TBM. They have excuses, minimization, etc. to explain away the difficult parts. One TBM bore his testimony over the pulpit saying that RSR *strengthened* his testimony. Crazy!

So in short, at least your mother will be informed and possibly sympathetic to why you left, but it doesn't mean that she will leave TSCC herself.

exodus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Now, I've known many TBMs who have read it and are
> still TBM. They have excuses, minimization, etc.
> to explain away the difficult parts.

I think it is great, because at least people are informed and are forced to formulate their own thoughts. They probably won't walk away from it with the same testimony they had before. However, I say more knowledge is better than less knowledge.


One TBM bore
> his testimony over the pulpit saying that RSR
> *strengthened* his testimony. Crazy!

That's not that surprising or crazy, that is how many people react when entrenched in a position. It is a phenomenon called the backfire effect. Basically, it comes from pride. When people see facts that threaten their world view, the further entrenchment is a defense mechanism.

But in the end, when people become informed of the facts, that is much better than ignoring all the facts. When they learn the facts, my discussion is never trying to convince them to interpret the facts to my way of thinking. I merely ask them a simple question "But you can see why other people would find these things very troubling."

You can interpret facts however you want. But you can't deny the facts.

My tbm husband read it and he was out!! He was really disturbed by the polyandry chapters. I had 2 other friends that claim it strengthend their testimony. I don't see how. But my guess is that many people that have it, just put it on a shelf to show off that they have this great history book about JS. But really they have no idea what's inside of it

The author himself has remained in the church.

Bushman is still an active patriarch. He's even done firesides on staying in the church. However, after listening to interviews with him, he sounds more NOM than TBM. He laughs at Joe's treasure hunting, reveals the uninspired nature of patriarchal blessings, and doesn't bear testimony of the truthfulness of the restoration. If I was in his shoes, I'd probably do the same thing. His book sales increase as doubt, and word of doubt, increases. How many books is he going to sell if he comes out and says Joe was a lying, adulterous, murderous conman?

I personally believe that it will shake most if not all members' faith but there's probably about half of TBM's who will accept the author's excuses for the issues and another half who simply cannot. Hopefully your mother is the former. It definitely weeds out of the tares from the wheat.

If she can stand reading it to the last page, even if she for some reason decides to remain in the Church (Like Richard Bushman), she will have a much better understanding of why people can't believe Joseph Smith.

Bushman has pushed the envelope about as far as possible without being excommunicated. For example, he acknowledges the Fanny Alger affair, but then states "conflicting accounts make it difficult to establish the facts".(p. 323) Later, when discussing polyandry, Bushman says: "There is no certain evidence that Joseph had sexual relations with any of the wives who were married to other men".(p. 439) Apparently, personal testimonies don't matter unless they say what Bushman wants them to say.

The phrases "difficult to establish" and "no certain evidence" are what saved Bushman's ass from the brethren's fires. "Joseph Smith Rough Stone Rolling" is loaded with them.

I wonder why HCK had such anguish over giving his wife Vilate to JS? So much anguish for a marriage in name only? I think not.

^ Exactly!

I read that book on the recommendation of a TBM friend when he knew I had serious issues with the history and doctrine of the church. Rough Stone Rolling strengthened his belief. It further deteriorated mine...

There may be hope

Be sure to see the critical review of RSR on PoMo:


http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/pomopedia/Rough_Stone_Rolling/%22%20%20title=%22Rough_Stone_Rolling

When she's had a shot RSR give the CES letter for a chaser, that should loosen her up.

Ask her about it

John Dehlin interviewed Richard Bushman on Mormon Stories. The interview is fascinating. Richard B. states that he remains a Mormon because of it's goodness. Whatever.(eyeroll) He is absolutely brilliant though and I would actually like to read it now. I was never interested before.

I would say that watching JD's interview of Bushman is a good "next step". TBMs would be shocked at Bushman's testimony (part 3 of the podcast). After one knows so much truth about TSCC and decides to stay, their testimony is either exotic like Bushman's or they're delusional.

I saw a guy at church carrying a copy of RSR. I asked him about it and he said it strengthened his testimony as it showed him how 'human' Joseph was.

If someone really wants to keep believing, they will find a way.

Plus the fact that the book is very apologetic and misleading. There is a lengthy (100 page) rebuttal on one of the so-called anti-mormon (I call them pro-truth) blogs.