Teaching false doctrine, eh? The entire LDS faith is false doctrine.

At the risk of offending George Orwell, some doctrines are more false than other doctrines.

Just as some true doctrines aren't very useful.

I don't see how a thinking person could read that statement and decide they can stay in the institution and maintain their integrity. But that's just me.

Well, there you have it. The red line has been mapped.

Looks like those locally driven courts of "love" are right in line with this edict.

Do they not see how stupid they look? Do they not see the inherent sexism in their remarks?

I could interpret that of fit a log of Mormons I know.

I notice the absence of signatures and that it has been released by "The Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve" .. whatever that is supposed to mean.

There are no names and no signatures on this document. This might as well have been written - and likely was - written by church lawyers who have no "spiritual" right to speak for the church.

This was not read out in meetings, and no sustaining vote was called for. At least for now, this document holds no weight.

Even for the TBM, there's really no reason to accept this as doctrine or policy.

And the opening paragraph shows that either they just don't get the issue OW was addressing, or they're choosing to ignore it. It's not about receiving "blessings" or how you serve in the church, it's about who has authority and how decisions are made.

Interesting givrn TSM is rumored by some TBMs to be suffering from dimentia.

Where did this statement appear? Was it read by a PR spokesman, newspaper, etc. Will it be read over the pulpit this Sunday. What's the scoop?

Oh, and thanks for posting it.

It's on the LDS website. Here it is in html form: https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostles/june-first-presidency-statement?lang=eng

The front page of lds.org links to it by saying, "Church Leaders' Message Addresses Doctrine, Questions."

Notice the last lines:

The Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Maybe I've been away too long, but I don't recall that kind of title before.

Statement is on their Official Web Site.... lds dot org Can't get anymore official than that. Keeps it simple and clear.

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/prophets-and-apostles/recent-messages/june-first-presidency-statement.pdf?lang=eng

The problems arise because of all of the distortion and misunderstanding of how this organization works and why and what members can control and what they cannot.

These 15 men really are charlatans. Not one of them wrote this letter.

I'd bet my left nut that on a day to day basis, Thomas S. Monson is not even capable of penning a letter.

How disingenuous. How convenient. How comical.

If this letter is read from pulpits around the world tomorrow it will be a victory for Sister Kelly.

You mean that it was "ghost written"!?

I see what you did there...

Isn't that wonderful that "church members are always free to ask questions"? HOWEVER they must never demand to get answers. Ask all you want and they will only supply your inquiring mind with the answers of "I don't know the answer" or "It's God's will" or the ever reliable "You must have faith in the church". None of those replies involve getting an answer to questions.

The first presidency, if you look closely, never says WHO will supply the answers. Thanks for nothing guys. Maybe that's why we keep going to the media with our questions in hopes that you will pay attention and give answers and not just admonitions.

Once again we see the mormon CULT redefining it's doctrine and principles. When Fawn Brodie was excommunicated church officials formally charged her with apostasy and stated the following:

"You assert matters as truths which deny the divine origin of the Book of Mormon, the restoration of the Priesthood and of Christ’s Church through the instrumentality of the Prophet Joseph Smith, contrary to the beliefs, doctrines, and teachings of the Church."

Note how specific the charges against Brodie were. Kate Kelly's letter simply said she was being excommunicated for: "conduct contrary to the laws and orders of the church". In other words, apostasy is what we, the church lawyers, now say it is.

What's clear is that the "un-holy" fifteen wanted her out - the facts be damned.

So what has happened to prophetic revelation from the profit...er prophet?

JS / BY always had an answer. It was all bs, but he/they had an answer. If not he would ask god and get one. Pretty simple one would think, being a profit...er prophet and all.

But nowadays, nothing..not a word. Just bs from lawyers and such.

If I understand the Ordain Women movement accurately, they have wanted the prophet and apostles to take the matter to god in prayer.

"We sincerely ask our leaders to take this matter to the Lord in prayer."
http://ordainwomen.org/mission/

This latest statement from the church does not say that they took the matter to the Lord in response to the request of the women. It comes across to me that the traditions of the church are all that matters and it is not worth their time to ask god about.

The letter came out after the excommunication. I am left wondering, if the prophet and apostles had told Kate and the Ordain Women movement in a letter like this that they had prayed and got the answer to leave things as they are with the church, would Kate have accepted that? We will never know, because they excommunicated her first, then put out a letter that still does not give what Kate asked for.

How is it that FAIR can promote a Limited Geography Theory for the Book of Mormon people and claim that the idea of people all over the Americas was just a tradition of incorrect ideas among the members of the church?

Why is Kate excommunicated for asking the prophet to approach god for an answer while FAIR gets a free pass to promote a different understanding of the Book of Mormon than had been taught by the prophets of the church?

michaelm (not logged in) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Kate excommunicated for asking the prophet
> to approach god for an answer while FAIR gets a
> free pass to promote a different understanding of
> the Book of Mormon than had been taught by the
> prophets of the church?

Because the 15 are happy for any BS theories to be taught about a BS book. But KK potentially threatened their own self-imposed male power, big egos, healthy stipends and priestcraft.

Truth doesn't matter, just tithing dollars flowing in and who gets to have the power.

Were blacks, pre-1978, not valiant in the preexistence, and blacks, post-1978, valiant in the preexistence?

Good one...

Appreciate the clarification on the statement.

IMHO there are more winners from this thread in my category of great EXMO-STICK-IT-TO-THEM-QUOTES.....and they are:

Doubting Thomas with:

"I'll bet my left nut that on a day to day basis, Thomas S. Monson is not even capable of penning a letter."

Ishmael with:

"At the risk of offending George Orwell, some doctrines are more false than other doctrines."

Pooped with:

"Isn't that wonderful that "church members are always free to ask questions"? HOWEVER they must never demand to get answers."

It's totally okay to ask questions. It becomes apostasy when you continue to ask questions after you've been lovingly told to sit down and shut up.

Thanks for clearing that up!

"Members are always free to ask such questions..."

So if I attend EQ tomorrow, and ask the following, that will be ok:

1) Why did JS bang 14 year old girls?
2) Why did JS bang other men's wives?
3) Why did BY have people killed?
4) Why is there no archeological nor genetic evidence of the BOM peoples?
5) Were blacks, pre-1978, not valiant in the preexistence, and blacks, post-1978, valiant in the preexistence?
6) Why multiple first vision accounts?
7) Why is the BOA derived from a funerary scroll, whose actual translation has nothing to do with the scriptures associated therewith?
8) Why does Jesus buy $5B malls?
9) Why do grown men ask young teenage boys and young teenage girls how they touch themselves, and what they are thinking when they do so?

And I wouldn't be called into the bishop's office that evening, wherein my membership would immediately be in question?

Horseshit.

God I'm glad to be out of that pile of fetid unsightly rubbish.

You're free to ask questions--as long as the "asking" occurs in your thoughts only. Voicing questions is different from "asking" questions, which "asking" we have determined can take place only in your mind.

The council of top-tier god's true spokesmen

Another memo from corporate.

I thought this was a local ecclesiastical matter? #talkinoutthesideofyourneck

If it's ok for Kate Kelly to ask questions that realistically could only be answered by the prophet, why is it then ok for the prophet to ignore answering those questions?

The counter to this is, should you publish and promote all of the questions above in schlocks list and you were excommunicated for false doctrine you'd have a libel case you could win because there is nothing false about those assertions. It would bridge the gap in the Tom Phillips case as it would be the church instigating the libel and it would be very provable.

So does posting links or replying back to threads here count!!??

I caught all sorts of hell for daring to post a comment about Kate Kelly, but now my FB page is plastered with this "bulletin," as if it is the final word and now the discussion is over. No one can even engage in a conversation but they can regurgitate all day!