I am a recent convert, having joined the church less than a year ago. I have been engaged for even less time than that.

I thought I was happy. I really did. I thought I loved the church. I was very depressed before; I thought the church brought me out of it. I thought my fiance was so different from all those other guys--he didn't try to sleep with me; he didn't leave me when I didn't just want to be a one-night stand; he wanted to commit to me.

Then I started having horrible anxiety. I started looking up church history, things about polygamy, etc. I started getting nervous but I ignored it. I started fighting with my fiance, prompting him to say that I needed to 'grow in the gospel' more. I started having panic attacks at night--night terrors, really.

I want children. I want marriage, and I want love. I don't want a divorce. I want security. But at what price? Since I graduated from college a few months ago, I have landed the lead in a play at a professional theater. I was in a commercial and did some modeling. I won a national scholarship award for my research. I won a songwriting competition. I graduated at the top of my class at an Ivy League school and won the award for my department and my thesis. I got my dream job, a full time salaried position with benefits. I have started writing for several publications. I say these things not to brag--at all--but because until now I never felt good about myself. I thought I couldn't do anything. I just wanted someone to love me. Now I'm scared that marriage won't let me do those things. My fiance thinks that pride is wrong and that those things are nice and wonderful but not important. He very much wants children. I want them but that's not the focus of my life, at least not right now. He wants me to be passionate about homemaking and I care about it but I'd never be satisfied with just that. I love him and he loves me, but he's afraid I'm not spiritual enough. I'm just afraid of what will happen if we break up. I'll be all alone again, maybe depressed again. I won't have anyone to lean on. Everyone will make fun of me, will think I'm a failure because I couldn't keep him. I'll have given up on something yet again. I'll go home alone every night, maybe never even get married. I might not do well anymore. Maybe I am too prideful.

I want to go to graduate school, to write, to perform, to volunteer, to start a nonprofit, to adopt children, to be a teacher and an artist, maybe a professor someday. I want to grow spiritually. Maybe even go to seminary, become a minister. I want to travel. But I also want lifelong love. Does it have to be one or the other?

Maybe that's a red flag as to whether or not this is the right person.

Maybe I am too prideful.

Right there is your answer. No, it isn't pride at all, but rather the cult that wants you to think there's something wrong with YOU because you want to have a happy life. The truth is, once you marry this guy, the pressure's going to be horrendous to have kids and be a Molly Mormon.

Only you can decide if that's how you want to live your life or not, if the fears you have of being alone are worth your happiness. You are very successful, but the cult will suck every ounce of good feelings you have about yourself away and tell you they're sinful.

You're a winner, you don't need a life of fear and burying your talents. If this guy really loved you, eh would encourage you to be yourself, not to follow some cultish dogma. Pay attention to yourself, not the fears they've instilled in you.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.

Helen Keller

Yeah, I agree, and I have. It's pretty much remained at a standstill. He's promised to support me and all my dreams, but I think it's pretty half-hearted on his part. He says he agrees with me one day and the next day he says "My dreams are all about my family" and "Nothing we do outside the home compares to the joy of being at home," etc. So although I believe that he enjoys my intelligence and my energy, I know that there will be pressure to churn out babies (for lack of a better term), even if it's unspoken pressure.

I'm not afraid of the gossip so much as I'm afraid of regretting it personally. I do care about him very much and although I'm a strong person, I am also very emotional and I want to make sure I'm making the right decision.

Listen to yourself, you write that you're terrified. Why would you go through with something that makes you feel terrified?

I married when I was 20 (not Mormon) and I spent the night prior to my wedding crying. If I had only listened to myself, my life would've been much much better. And I didn't even have any pressure to have kids or a family, I loved the guy, but my intuition said we weren't right for each other. We later divorced and that part of my life is still a hard thing for me to deal with, it was difficult and kept me from doing many things I wanted to do.

future life. How you WANT it to be. Ask him to do the same, honestly. If these two visions are incompatible, call off the marriage.

trying to "grow in the gospel" and change myself to fit the 'plan'— and I was even born into the belief system. Now I'm older and wish I had pushed harder to make my own decisions and create my own plan instead of letting people tell me what was best for me...and what God wanted for me. I wasn't as strong as I should have been and have some regrets because of that now.

Life is short and I've learned after too many years that I'd rather fail following my own path then trusting someone else who assures me they know what's best for me.

If you marry this guy can you really live the life you want to? Can you be your authentic self with him and other LDS? Obviously only you can answer these questions.

If you have serious doubts I'd slow things down. No need to rush things. If it's really a good thing and he really loves you, he'll stick around long enough for you to figure it out one way or another.

Good luck.

Slow down, there. Do not get married yet. You must work these things out before you get married, they won't magically disappear once the ring goes on.

My advice upfront:put the wedding on hold until you can get this figured out a little better. So what if you break up? Who cares what anyone thinks? Are you going to commit yourself for the rest of your life just to avoid some gossip?

Your fiance has been taught his whole life that the woman's place is in the home. Surely you have read their Proclamation to the Family. That is what will be expected of you. If you get married, there will be immediate pressure to get pregnant. If that happens, school, travel and career will probably be put on hold indefinitely.

Yes, it is possible to do anything you want in this life, and have love as well. But it is nearly impossible if you remain Mormon. You may love him, and he may love you, but if want completely different things, your marriage will be doomed. I do not believe that there is only one possible love for each person. You may find someone in the future who will love you for who you are and respect your desires and goals.

At the very least, you have to clearly communicate your wants. If your fiance loves you for who you are, he will stay. If he just wants a woman to bear his children, you will find that out and make your decision. Do not try to be something you are not, and make yourself want all the same things he wants. You will be miserable.

You sound like a person with a wide variety of interests and an energy level that is suited to excellence and variety. Do you think that will be a good fit for someone who stays home cooking and cleaning and talking to small children all day?

I've been there and done that and it had it's rewards, but mostly it's stifflingly boring. I had to be very creative to keep the depression from overwhelming me.

The Mormon church is a ponzi scheme that wants to force human beings into plastic packages so they can milk them of their time and money..

Figuring this out now and rethinking your current position is what I should have done thirty years ago. (as in thinking with my head that is)


According to your post you are the kind of woman I would like to marry. Smart, accomplished, independent with a future plan for accomplishing more. These are your dreams. According to your post these dreams do not match what your fiancé thinks your dreams “should” be. I guarantee your dreams die the first day you learn of your impending firstborn and that is exactly the purpose of mormon marriage.

The fiancés and the Church’s dreams now will reign supreme and then all the mind numbing demands of obedience, time and money kicks in. You will have no time or money for “your” dreams. Why is that? Because in Mormonism the woman has a very specific duty. And that is to bring children into the world, as many as you can. In time you will regret your decision which could lead to divorce.

Ask yourself this question. Are my fiancé and his churches plans for me and my loins what I want in life?
You already know the answer. Now is the time to take courage and make the higher choice. At the very least postpone or break the engagement. Marriage will always wait. Your dreams will not.

Oh and this nonsense from your post “I'll be all alone again, maybe depressed again. I won't have anyone to lean on. Everyone will make fun of me, will think I'm a failure because I couldn't keep him. I'll have given up on something yet again. I'll go home alone every night, maybe never even get married. I might not do well anymore.” is all BS and you know it. Shush up already! You got it goin-on girl!

Sure it will be a hard choice. But you will never regret waiting and I bet that once you take some time to slow things down you’ll realize the incredibly large bullet you’re about to dodge.

You want depressing? Try having a bunch of kids and wanting a divorce but you can't get one because of no income, plus you worry about their not having a stable family life, etc.

Postpone the wedding. You have too many questions to enter into a marriage. If you think you were lonely and depressed before, being in a loveless marriage with someone who want to control you is worse than being lonely and depressed on your own. I know.

See a psychiatrist and a therapist, non-Mormon ones. If you think you are depressed you might want to consider medication. At the very least you need to discuss your situation with a person who can help you to understand what is best for YOU. YOU are the focus of YOUR life.

You have achieved amazing things. You have every right to be proud of you abilities and your achievements. If your fiancé can not celebrate these things then he can't celebrate YOU.

I went into a marriage with many questions and I had panic attacks. My ex turned into a hypochondriac who wanted to control me. I went into a severe depression for several years and gained 100 pounds. The marriage and its after effects changed my life for the worse. After I was divorced my mother knew I was unhappy and decided that the best way to help me was to tell me how to run my life. I resented her interference and our relationship became very strained. Just when I was starting to recover from the marriage my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer and died 4 months later, sending me into another depression. I wasted the last few years of my mother's life in anger over the issues with my marriage.

You two are not a match; you want different things, clearly. It does not sound like he respects you, your needs, desires, abilities or accomplishments.

Why the rush to get married? You just graduated, for heaven's sake - the world is your oyster, so they say. Do NOT marry some man stuck with 50's values. Do not be just his little homebody, baby-tender. Once you have a kid, that's it - you can't divorce the child, and while you can easily divorce the man, it's not so easy with a child depending on you.

Please, please, put this impending marriage on hold or even break it off if he refuses to respect you.

I think underneath you know what to do, but you're afraid to.

Write this quote on your bathroom mirror, refrigerator, above your TV screen, etc:

The people who matter don't care, and the people who care don't matter.

What did you get this education for, anyway? To be a Mormon housewife???

Dump him. You can do better. Be footloose and fancy free while you're young, gorgeous and unfettered!

That's a biggy.

...as well as the advice of other posters above.

I see a field strewn with red flags.

Why the rush to get married and start a family? I really wonder if this Mormon guy even deserves you. From your own description of yourself, you seem like an accomplished, educated, talented woman. Why waste all that talent and settle for being crammed into the Mormon pigeonhole?

Frankly, I think your fiance is JEALOUS of you and your accomplishments. The only place you can go is UP. Mormonism is going to drag you DOWN.

Run, COnfusedgirl, run! And don't be confused any longer about YOUR talents, YOUR life and what YOU want out it.

I agree with putting the marriage on hold. Do what makes you happy. And all of us wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, and don't be scared to rant here, heaven knows I have.

Graduate programs are communities, and you will build a larger diverse one as you go to conferences and do research, (or perform) and meet others in your community.

You will not be alone.

Do not marry now. You are not ready.I was a convert 40 years ago and married 6 months later. The good thing is, I married a non member. I finally gave him an ultimatum 4 years into our marriage that he join the church - he did, we went to the temple a year later. I was such an unwavering, dedicated LDS bitch but he hung in there with me. We've had a wonderful life with lots of children, my continued education, traveling ... This was inspite of the church not because of it. We finally made our way out but we had some very difficult times. Keeping a marriage going strong is difficult enough, don't go into it with such trepidation. You will find fulfillment and happiness with or without a spouse if you do this right. Good luck!

I agree with the others who have said to call off the wedding, as there's a reason why you're afraid, and it's not because of Satan as they will say. I married someone like your fiancee and he turned out to be controlling and didn't like my goals of finishing my BA and getting a job, as he wanted me to stay home and have his children right away.

I went into a severe clinical depression and ended up having to be hospitalized to survive long enough to get the strength to get a divorce. Naturally he hated my therapist because she wasn't with the SS of the LDS church. It was with therapy that I realized what he was doing was abusive, so I got out before there were any children, as I was able to cut him completely out of my life. Once I divorced him and left the church, the depression went away, and it's been 8 years since I needed an antidepressant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 04:53PM by adoylelb.

and even stop the wedding. I feel qualified to give this advice because I was in your shoes a few years ago.

My fiance and I were engaged to be married in June, but even as early as April, I was having doubts. We had a pretty long engagement by Mormon standards, considering he asked me in January, and we scheduled it for June. Anyway, the weekend of general conference in April, I told him I wasn't sure I wanted to go through with it. He was furious. I cried. He yelled. And one of the things he said was that no one would want me after I had been engaged to someone else because I was already too old (25 and a returned missionary) and too smart (?) for most guys. Apparently previously engaged would be a deal breaker.....

So, one week before the big day, my mom pulled me aside and told me that she was really worried about me. She told me I shouldn't have to give up my personality and my interests just to get married. I cried for three days straight before I had the courage to tell her to go ahead and cancel the wedding plans. My mom called every single person on the invitation list, and explained that the wedding would be postponed.

At first, I was really embarrassed. But both my parents and my fiance's parents were relieved. Don't be afraid to postpone your wedding - even if it's indefinitely. The mistake of getting engaged to the wrong guy is infinitely less painful than marrying the wrong guy. The day I finally gave back the engagement ring was the day of my first date with my now husband.

Thanks guys--I am as terrified to call off/postpone the wedding as I am to have it, but I unfortunately think that's what's going to have to happen, or I'll just get pregnant. And I'm not someone who hates children or doesn't want them. I LOVE babies and children. I just can't bring myself to believe that God would really be angry with me if I wanted to keep having a career along with raising my kids. I tried to tell my fiance that I want my daughters (AND sons!) to see a strong woman as their role model, who has passions and talents and does a great deal of good in the world, and not someone who just cooks and cleans all day (and I know being a SAHM is incredibly hard) and pops out babies at a young age and has no ideas of her own but only recites LDS doctrine (and believes with all her heart that God actually sanctions powerful men sleeping with multiple 15-year-old girls). He pretty much said something to the effect of, "There is no more fulfilling job than that," etc.

I respect stay-at-home moms. My mother was one. I might be one for a time. But my mother had a college degree and an MBA. She was a professional dancer and later a choreographer. She worked in church ministry and, for a time, had an at-home job. She did not get pregnant and vow that For Eternity She Would Now Function as a Womb.

And I know I can sometimes sound really insecure, but that's the push-pull I have going on in my head. I really am afraid I'll never get married, even though I know that's dumb since I'm only 20. I want to believe in the church so badly and I know I'd be really upset if my fiance and I broke up, but then I get this horrible anxiety and I just don't think I can go through with it.

confusedgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He pretty much said something
> to the effect of, "There is no more fulfilling job
> than that,"

How does he know?

come from being a stay at home parent. So, tell him, you'll have a kid and he can stay home and raise it.

Either you're an overachiever or not quite honest with us. If an overachiever, you are going to be bored out of your mind being only a SAHM.

You are too young to be rushing into marriage. I think most 20-yr-olds are too young to be getting married anyway. Good lord, girl, you're not even old enough to buy alcohol!

Don't get married until you meet a man you can't imagine living without. This is not the man.

Dump him, dump mormonism, go to your job, or move and get another one, but jettison the downers. You deserve better.

Learn the absolute freedom and power of a nice, loud, heartfelt, "F*** off!" Because nice Mormon girls don't talk like that. Don't give in to the male-dominated cult. The whole organization is rotten to the core. Get out ASAP.

Haha--no, not lying. I graduated early.

And that's what I'm most afraid of, the boredom. I am just not the type of person who wants to write a blog about my organic crafts and post 48 pictures of my child in a pumpkin costume. Maybe I'd be less complicated if I was. But I just can't relate to that.

Girlfriend, you are INSANE to even consider marriage at 20 y/o.

Go out and have a life. Travel. Pursue your career and dreams. Once you marry ol' stick-in-the-mud-Mormon-man, you will never have the chance to be young and you'll be stuck at home making casseroles and banging out kids to satisfy your husband's ego.

Don't waste your life on HIS dreams.

Your last paragraph mentions seminary. Seminary in TSSC is done in high school mostly. You may get a little in college. The point I am making is that to become a minister, you must not be in the LDS church. They have a lay ministry of business men. There is no leader of the LDS church that has a degree from an accredited religious college. In fact, they love to brag that they don't have a paid ministry and that is true for stake president and lower. The higher-ups are paid. But their training is not in theology, it is mostly business or communications, sometimes a token doctor.

As others have said, once married in TSSC you will be expected to be at home barefoot and pregnant and that is the woman's place in their church.

Yes, I know--I mean non-Mormon seminary, lol...like divinity school.

Why are you rushing? You've made 2 major life decisions in less than 1 year? Decisions that could effect the next 50+ years of your life?

The mormon church got to you while you were down on yourself and promised you a 'one-size fits all' happiness plan. Guess what? That plan (based on your accomplishments and dreams that you posted) will not work for you.

Postpone the wedding. Go to a non-mo therapist and take time to find yourself.

Oh, and "grow in the gospel" basically equates to "don't think for yourself...we will provide you the answers. If you question us it is because there is something wrong with you."

confusedgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>. Everyone will make fun of me, will
> think I'm a failure because I couldn't keep him.
> I'll have given up on something yet again.

Who is "everyone" that will make fun of you/think you are a failure for making a decision to take you time and not ruin your life rushing into a bad situation? They sound like toxic people, that you should distance yourself from.

>
> I want to go to graduate school, to write, to
> perform, to volunteer, to start a nonprofit, to
> adopt children, to be a teacher and an artist,
> maybe a professor someday. I want to grow
> spiritually. Maybe even go to seminary, become a
> minister. I want to travel. But I also want
> lifelong love. Does it have to be one or the
> other?

What are you going to do with the other 23 hours in your day? :D It seems you don't know for sure what you want out of yourself yet. Maybe start focusing on what you want to do with yourself right now. If it is graduate school start with that, and maybe VOLUNTEER at a nonprofit for now. Later when your life is further down its path you can do all these other things,....as long as you haven't tied yourself down with mormonism. Dump the cult and the loser that came with it.

Haha, I know!! I like to be busy but I know I can't possibly do ALL of those things...and those are some of the things I'd like to do eventually in life, obviously not all right now. Any one of them (or two) would be great. My point was just that I have a lot of interests, all of which my fiance thinks are great but basically not nearly as important as having kids.

It's not as if there aren't enough people on his planet already.

You need a lot more time to discover what you want, who you are, all that. You have too much life to live to be tying yourself down at this point.

What would he think of you refusing to even consider having a child until you're at least 30? It's not as if your uterus is going to dry up and quit working at the age.

It's your body, your life, not his.

Babies and children are only babies and children for a short time.

Timothy

You are much too young to "settle" for a Mormon marriage just because you fear loneliness.
The price is too high.

Be aware that Mormon safety and security are illusions!
In fact, EVERTYTHING in Mormonism is illusion. Be careful.

Follow your heart and get the additional schooling. The higher you go, the more opportunities you will have.
You will also have more choices and leeway whenever some bumps in the road appear.

In a university setting, surely you can meet someone new.

But take time to get to know a person before jumping into marriage.
"Marry in haste, repent at leisure" still holds true.

Bottom line: He wants a Molly-Mormon doormat he can walk all over. You are no doormat...

Number one is if your fiance wants you to give up the things that matter the most to you - you need to say NO!!

As Lostinutah said, listen to yourself! Of course you are terrified, inside you sense that you are on the brink of a nightmare marriage. Do you think it will be easier to break up a marriage than a simple betrothal? At least postpone the marriage for one year and give yourself time to grow up a little. In the meantime he will be outta there because you will have proved yourself to be no molly mormon after all. (Actually, with your intellectual credentials how could you ever have believed in M\sm to begin with?)

You say you love him but actually you sound incredibly insecure and attached to this man out of neediness, not financial but emotional. What a horrible reason to marry someone. The best marriages are between independent people who want to be together but neither one is wanting to suck their own life energy out of the other. As far as him loving you, he probably loves his image of you, his fantasy of you. And you do sound like quite a catch; attractive, smart and for now, pliable. Gee, you got into Mormonism, you said yes to a marriage proposal, he sees more concessions and obedience coming from you in your future married life. Do you think he would want to marry you if you were assertive with him, 50-50? Just tell him you are ditching mormonism and all its crazy, fantastical beliefs, and see how eager he is to pick out a dining room set.

Whatever you do, don't get pregnant for at least 5 years. You might find you don't even want children, ever.

There is a lot of sound advice from the others on this board. If you disregard it, well, that's your choice. In that case you may be posting things like "DH wants me to give up Sunday speaking engagements so I can go to church with him.", Or how about, "My daughter is too smart for mormon sunday school and hates it but DH makes her attend." Good luck with that.

This is true. I recognize my insecurity and that's part of why I'm so afraid...because I know I've made rash decisions (conversion, engagement, etc.) out of insecurity.

When a mormon says they want you to "grow in the gospel," what they really mean is that they want you stunted in every other area, especially if you are woman.

What's really scary is that mormons do not consciously realize that they are asking you to stunt or restrict all other aspects of your life in order to grow in the gospel.

"Grow in the gospel" is cult language. It is used to cover a multitude of types of emotional/psychological blackmail.

Run like the devil himself were after you. I felt the same sort of thing, but the invitations had been sent and the Temple President enlisted and that doomed me to my fate. My fears proved to 100% correct. Biggest mistake of my life.

Hi

If you think you're under pressure and stress now, just wait a while, until after you're married. The only way to cope, for so many mormon women, is Prozac.

If hubby-to-be's love is conditional, it's just not worth the agony.

You know him better than anyone. Is there any possibility that you have talk about love, conditional love and authentic love, adn try to get him into a conversation that leads him to empathise? If not, now is the time to break it, rather than waiting until kids come along, and until your life and self-esteem are completely wrecked.

You have lots of skills and are a fantastic person, by anyone's standards. But the morg doesn't like women who think. It's task is to crush your spirit and bring you under its control.

Don't let it.

It's a Cult. Run, while you still can.

Kindest regards

Grey

Not even in the same book, let alone the same page!
You want to own your own life and meet your own goals?? This fiance is not going to accept that.

Stop punishing yourself for wanting to continue your accomplishments.

This man does not love you or support you.
He just wants a baby machine! This is not your heritage, not your "tribe" not your "home."

Create your own life on your own terms. Be the authentic: YOU!!!
That is where true joy and happiness is.
There is no happiness in trying to conform to what someone else wants for them!

Time to move on. Find your happiness the way you want.

Having been a professional model and actor myself, I know LDS that were very talented but ended up getting married and throwing those dreams out the window, often resulting in both dissatisfaction in life and later trying to relive their dreams through their kids in the arts.
You noted that he wonders about how "spiritual" you are; I assume he's following the LDS rules for "spiritual", which most likely mean church, hubby & kids to the detriment of ANYTHING else. "Passionate about homemaking"!? What kind red flag does THAT throw up. A famous mormon quote is "The natural man is an enemy to God", and yet the same church wants its members to start breeding ASAP; think about it. Creative and intellectual exploration seem the opposite of "natural man" to me. Anyway, he's probably a nice guy (probably nicer than most of the theater guys who'll hit on you).
You are obviously creative, writing and acting, exploring what it means to be human, and with that often goes depression--I've been there too. The LDS church IMO opinion doesn't want prople to explore too much, because they think have all the answers and everyone should follow the rules and be happy.

To be honest, I always wanted a kids but didn't get going until a lot later in life because I was so busy in "the business"--postpone the wedding, because if you get married, he definitely won't want to postpone the kids. Just my opinion.

Honey, I know a umber of people-- former co-workers etc. who got married because they were lonely or afraid noone else is going to propose and in each case it turned out to be nightmare and divorce whch is especially sad when there are kids to consider.

Tell your fiance to wait for awhile and see a good therapist about you 'fear' of never getting married.
You're so young and have so much going for you, it's hard to believe you don't have a large circle of friend, who include males men who think of you as more than a one-night-stand.

If you get married to this fellow it'll being a temple where you will told to obey him and wear church approved underwear for the rest of your life and God forbid, you apostosize, you're told you lose your children forever and go to 'outer darkness'.

Talking about depressed than!
You have my good wishes and prayers!

It seems like neither of you have set down and thought this through, Hold this out to arms length and study it very carefully. What is the rush? Where do you want to be in your life in 1-3-5 years???? Where does he want to be in that time?
The mormons are great about people getting married young,,things will always work out,,trust us.
I always notice when I go to a mall or store the many young women with 2-4 children. They look drained, tired and vacant,,no joy.
Think it over and keep us posted.