So I can't stand that the church lies and lies and gets away with it and that people waste their time and money being used by this organization. I enjoy my ex-mo freedom and wanted to let others know what I researched and discovered. So I posted the CES Letter on my Facebook last weekend with the hope of getting out the truth to those of my friends on Facebook that are LDS. I provided a link to the web site and a short message about those who are LDS or consider becoming LDS to consider some facts they may not have heard before.

I got one Like and then this from a TBM friend of 6 years:

"I respect your decision to leave the Church, but now that you have chosen to start opposing it openly, I find it insulting and offensive. If we are friends, please stop. Friends respect their friend's beliefs."

My interpretation of this is that it was ok for me to leave, just keep my mouth shut. With a warning that the friendship ends if I post anything further "anti-LDS". I never say a word when all the pro-church posts occur around conference, people go on trek and post pix, post stuff about church videos, and on and on, but then I get this.

I think the message within the message is that now I'm being an apostate ("opposing it openly"), he can't associate with an apostate (can lose his temple recommend).

I plan to respond, challenging him on telling me to shut up about what I think. In addition, that to threaten a friendship over my expressing my thoughts is sad. I will lose the friendship, but I don't think I need this kind of conditional one-sided friendship.

You do respect his beliefs by not making disparaging comments on his wall posts about the church. Point out to him that he is not respecting your beliefs by telling you what you can and cannot post on your own Facebook wall. If you were posting the CES to his wall, he would have a point. He can always choose to not view what you post on your wall. If he openly commented under the CES post, then he just helped you spread the good word because now his friends will see what he posted a comment too :)

I second eunice's post.

Precisely.I've often had the same argument and I've used this very same answer.

Ask him what he thought when he first heard the gospel. Did he want to share the truth with others? Tell him that you're doing the same and don't mean to offend but to educate folks. He can stop "following" you on FB if he can't handle your posts (or in this case a single post).

This is the flagrantly disproportionate perspective of TBMs. TSCC is predicated on all others being false and apostate, yet if anyone dares to say that they don't believe TSCC is true, then they are "anti-mormon" and you'd think the sky is falling! The existence of TSCC is an affront to Christianity, but no one dare say it isn't true...

People have very strong opinions about their religion. They don't like what they love being bad-mouthed.
And some will say so!

But we can ignore them and let them know we are going to voice our opinion and there is nothing they can do about it but they are free not to read it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2014 01:43PM by SusieQ#1.

Sadly....I get this attitude from my wife.

It's ok for her to talk about church, and all that. But I am not allowed to talk about what I think or believe on the issue. She can even make jokes about it, and about me being an apostate. But I get nasty looks if I make a joke. I have seen this mentality with so many tbms.

Mormonism. Some (my daughter) post things daily.

I posted a link to mormonthink as a message to my daughter (as the managing editor is someone she knows and respects). She never said anything, but a long-time friend had a meltdown. I asked her if she had read anything, especially the info about the new managing editor. She later told me she liked what he had to say.

But it amazes me how many things Mormons post and then jump all over us if we post something about our own TRUTH.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2014 09:40AM by cl2.

I doubt it has anything to do with his fearing being seen to associate with an apostate for fear of losing a temple recommend.

This is about your causing him mental dissonance.

He is not your friend.

Your facebook wall is your house. He is going to tell you what to say and do in your own house?

You can respect his right to believe what he wants but you also expect him it from him as well.

If you want to turn the tables ask him help you by answering the questions in the CES Letter so you can then better understand why what you believe maybe incorrect.

When Mormons get blow back from THEIR missionary and proselytizing efforts they say "but we're just trying to share with others what makes us happy." Say the same thing right back. Tell him you are just sharing what YOU believe is the truth and what might help others find happiness. You are not attacking anyone personally. And you are not telling people they can't worship how they please or what they must believe, you are just sharing what you have learned and what YOU feel others have a right to know. What they wish to do with that information is up to them. You're not saying anywhere that Mormons are stupid, evil, or going to hell or anything. All you are sharing are historical facts and alternative versions of the official storyline about. Tell him you think its very sad that we as free Americans living in a free society can't freely and openly share information about religion without losing friendships.

Especially since its only posted on YOUR Facebook page. You are not calling out any individuals. You are not forcing anyone to respond to your post. Somehow its okay for Mormons to go around and try and change other people's faith and beliefs to their own but others are not awarded the same privilege? Somehow its okay for Mormons can knock on other people's doors, invite/pressure others to go to THEIR church, tell others how their religion/beliefs are insufficient or wrong, and then tell them how ONLY THEIR religion is the true/correct one, whereas you are required to keep you mouth shut? Mormons can give their side of the story about why people should buy into Mormonism but others can't share information about why they shouldn't? Where's the balance in that? Don't people have a right to know BOTH sides? Especially if they are investigating the church? If you were buying a product wouldn't people want to read ALL the reviews and NOT just the positive ones?

Tell him it sounds like a very lop-sided, one-way relationship. And you aren't even posting the contents of the letter in your actual posts. You just posted the link so others can go to it if they want but aren't forced to see the contents on their FB feed.

If you

I will end my criticism of Mormonism when ALL LDS missionaries are called home.

Mormons are not looking for their beliefs to be respected. They are looking for their beliefs to be validated. Big difference.

Their idea of respect is that they are free to expound on their religion all they want and you are free to shut up.

disagreeing with someone is not attacking them.

Oh, and what are the 80,000 missionaries doing? Promoting a book that declares that "all other religions" are an abomination to god.

blueorchid stated it perfectly, you are free to shut up..they are free to send out 80,000 missionaries promoting their beliefs.

Very recently I had this type of an interaction with someone very dear to my heart. With the usual TBM there is no way under heaven that it is ok if you share something about your beliefs and why they bring you joy.

I called this person out for the very thing we are discussing here. Because the person sees me as making the deliberate choice to resign my membership and now be sitting on the opposite side of the fence as he is on, there existed no give and take discussion. No he spoke. I should listen...and that was it. NO DISCUSSION ALLOWED.

Blueorchid, your words are so on and ring VERY true in respect to happenings in my life with TBM'S. You said it well. Thanks for sharing.

"MORMONS ARE NOT LOOKING FOR THEIR BELIEFS TO BE RESPECTED. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THEIR BELIEFS TO BE VALIDATED. BIG DIFFERENCE. THEIR IDEA OF RESPECT IS THAT THEY ARE FREE TO EXPOUND ON THEIR RELIGION ALL THEY WANT AND YOU ARE FREE TO SHUT UP."

In this interaction I felt belittled and not respected in the least. How can you be friends with someone who treats you in this manner? My decision has come down to the fact, as heartwrenching as it has been to get to this point, that if someone does not care to listen to what I have to say, and give me some honest feedback whether it is in agreement or not, then there really is no friendship.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2014 11:48AM by presleynfactsrock.

This is why breaking from Mormonism is so very difficult and most often ends in forever strained, if not completely lost, relationships with friends and family. Mormons are so deluded and have such a persecution complex, they actually do not see the reality of interactions like these.

They are stunningly arrogant and certain that they KNOW, but at the very same time, so sensitive and fearful that someone might cause them to doubt. What they already KNOW?! If they actually knew, nothing would upset them but the sadness for anyone who is so mistaken. Surprisingly, they react with fear and defensiveness as if someone is personally attacking them when one does not fawn over and congratulate them on their religious beliefs. They lash out like someone slapped them in the face when an exmo simply tries to explain why they left-with a link they don't even have to click!

This is not normal behavior. I have experienced this behavior from people I know very well and would never react like this even if I talked about our differing politics! If the OP had posted a link to a political opinion, this friend would have likely engaged her and explained why he disagrees or ignored it.

I think the stress of having to "know" something you cannot know, combined with emotion of religious beliefs contributes to this attitude. Then you add the everyone-is-out-to-get us attitude, and I think I understand it. However, it really is impossible to have anything but a superficial relationship with people like this.

Does he realize that if he posts anything pro-LDS that he will be openly opposing your religious beliefs?

Can't wait to hear how you respond to your TBM friend and if there is further exchange.

Tell him that you value his friendship. Ask him what he found offensive in the letter? What did he disagree with? For example, when I was a kid growing up, the church taught that JS never practiced polygamy. Now, that admit to it... why were they not honest in the past?

I hope we can always be friends and that you will come to value what I have discovered...etc...

>> If we are friends, please stop. Friends respect their friend's beliefs.


Well, there goes lds missionary work too I guess

I don't think that sounds like a true friend! True friends wouldn't care what you believe or what you say or post. He is a Mormon friend which is quite different ------ I would just not talk to him anymore or drop him as a friend in a New York Minute!

For example….If you tell me you play the lottery and expect to win or you are sure that you have a method to win at lotto…you are an idiot. (I accept that some folks play for other reasons, like to be a part of an office pool etc. I'm talking about the dolts who think their are gonna win the jack pot)

If you tell me you believe in mormonism, I just assume you are intellectually lazy. If you can dumb yourself up enough to go along with it well then you just can't be very smart. You belong with the folks who buy copper bracelets to cure arthritis, believe that pills can make their penis grow bigger, and believe in all kinds of crazy crap. Remember the two most prevalent things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

S0 do I automatically respect people's beliefs. Hell no! People believe in some crazy ass shit. I once tried to explain mormonism to a friend of mine. SHe said "that's the craziest thing I've ever heard". It was the beginning of the end for me. I starting THINKING about it and realized she was right.

You're at no risk of losing a friend over this. Anyone who would issue that sort of ultimatum was never really your friend in the first place.

Look more closely and you'll see a pattern. Mormons will always put their religion ahead of their friends. You should pity them for trading their birthright of emotional freedom for a bowl of twisted religious dogma.

You see, if it ain't love, it ain't real. TSCC is a love-killing machine. Everything has an ulterior motive because those acts of love are rungs on the ladder to heaven. Don't mind the fingers you feel under your feet.

But there's no ladder. Let it go and let it flow. As Freddie said, friends will friends right to the end.

Thank you for all the helpful comments and advice, very appreciated.

I sent him my response today and will return and report with what I hear back.

In the meantime, it's off to Utah to see my oldest daughter [not] get married on Tuesday. It's a temple wedding and of course I can't go in and watch my own daughter get married. I will find a Starbucks to sit it out at because I refuse to sit in their temple lobby.

I think you're wise to spend the time sipping coffee and not sitting around the wasteland of a temple waiting room.

We will be with you in spirit at Starbucks--I have a friend that would love to do a photo-essay of parents sitting outside of the temple waiting for children to get married. A man sitting in Starbucks would be a powerful picture--it is painful beyond words what TSCC does to families.

Make sure you write a letter to local papers about this.

Not fair or reasonable.

Do they respect our beliefs? Do they proselyte? Mormon proselytizing disrespects other beliefs absolutely.

Besides that, why are religious beliefs off limits to challenge? I'm sure if one African woman was talked out of letting her little girl get circumcized as part of religious belief, both would thank the friend who challenged that ritual.

Tell your friend you post the CES letter because you love Mormon people. If you didn't, you wouldn't care what they believe.

In the Mormon Temple Satan tells members that if they walk away from their oaths they will be in his (Satan's) power.

Yet you didn't even know what the oaths would be before you entered the Temple! The church demanded a totally blind commitment from you.

Now, good members MUST believe you are in Satan's power (otherwise they deny their own Temple rites), but if you try to defend yourself, they say that you are being offensive and not "respecting" their beliefs!

It's THEIR beliefs that were disrespectful of you in the first place! Basically the church threw the first punch, but you are said to be wrong for defending yourself.


Put that on your Facebook page.

Maybe upload the oaths so people investigating the Cult can start appreciating the marvelousness that is the Mormon Cult.

I resent that a Mormon of all people would have the gall to call out someone to "respect their beliefs". I requested the Mormons politely on numerous occasions to please leave me alone as I was not interested. Did they? Hell no. I received repeated visits and phone calls from the local bishopric and home teachers contrary to my desires. I finally had to formally resign my membership to get rid of them. Numerous others have posted similar experiences on this blog.

Tell your asshole "friend" that if Mormons were really "true men of god" they would respect the right of others not to be bothered.