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Posted by: jeff58 ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 02:02PM

I truly believe that the procedures followed in the Mormon church make it easier for its members to lie and cheat others than any other religion. Here's why:

When anyone is out working, regardless of what they do, there are almost always some type of opportunities to lie, cheat, or steal. A normal person chooses whether or not to take advantage of these opportunities, regardless, they have to answer to themselves and (depending on their beliefs) to their God.

Consider the situation for a TBM. They have a card in their wallet stating that they are honest. Let's say they cheat someone a little, tell a lie to get a sale, or whatever. They then go into their recommend interview and state they are honest. The priesthood leader doing the interview signs a card certifying him or her as "honest". The TBM can then soothe his or her conscious by looking at their card and tell themselves that "I must be honest, if not the Lord would have told him", they can shift the responsibility to someone else, and thereby rationalize dishonesty away. The person continues to read scriptures and pray, and because him/her still feels "the spirit" when they do those things. They consider themselves approved by god, because if they were doing anything wrong, they wouldn't feel the spirit, right? That's one of the main problems with confirming truth by your "feelings". When the church teaches that any time you feel "that way", its the holy ghost, whenever members feel "that way" they are getting the stamp of approval from the holy ghost, and therefore must be a good person.

The process continues while the person starts to do more and more dishonest things while at the same time firmly believing they are 100% honest and would defend themselves to the death. They BELIEVE they are honest because everything they have been taught since birth affirms that. When in fact they can be lying and stealing their way through life. They are then baffled when anyone points out things that show they are in fact lying thieves.

Bottom line is this: I live in Boise ID. There have been 5 people in the last three years convicted of major fraud, one was the largest Ponzi scheme in Idaho history and lost 1000's of peoples life savings (DBSI). All 5 were card carrying Mormons who firmly believe they are honest in every way. There is almost no way they could believe that about themselves without TSCC. None.

Others outside the church can at least steal from people and know they are thieves.

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Posted by: Plaid n Paisley ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 03:06PM

Mark Hofmann used this type of reasoning. I remember reading about one of his first forgeries back when he was a teenager. I remembered it as being a stamp but a quick check on Wikipedia said it was actually a dime. Hofmann altered a dime to turn it into a much more valuable coin and took it to an expert to have it authenticated - I think he even expressed doubts about the authenticity of the dime. When the expert said it was genuine Mark then chose to make this his new reality - even though he knew he had created a forgery. The expert said it it was genuine so it must be true.

From Wikipedia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann and based on the book, A Gathering of Saints by Robert Lindsay:

"According to Hofmann, while still a teenage coin collector, he forged a rare mint mark on a dime and was told by an organization of coin collectors that it was genuine.[5].....

"5. Lindsey, 370. Hofmann decided that if experts said the coin was genuine, then it was genuine, and he was cheating no one to whom he sold it.

I remember reading this in his own words (Hofmann's confession) and I found it quite compelling as it revealed the thinking of a sociopath.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 06:19PM

Man [who is a proven con and liar] starts a "church", says is it true. People believe him or his subsequent peoples. Then they begin to believe their leaders and themselves and everybody else in the congregation. A promise, based on a lie, is still a lie.

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