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Posted by: BYUboner ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 10:50PM

When the brethren have spoken, the thinking has been done!

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:04AM

When the brethren have spoken, the lack of thinking has been canonized.

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Posted by: nonsequiter ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:53AM

Some posted this here once before and I thought it was hilarious.

When the brethren have spoken, the thinking has been dumb.

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Posted by: twistedsister ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 09:16AM

Haha!!!

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Posted by: Tiny Tears ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 09:29AM

When the brethren have spoken, the doctrine has been or will be at some future date denied.

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Posted by: William Law ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 10:50PM

"The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity," the essay concludes. "The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit."

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Posted by: madalice ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 02:22AM

Eternal Truths? Are they serious? Have they ever read the BoA???

It's the book that talks about Kolob being the planet closest to where God lives, among other crazy things concerning the universe.

I guess this means the song about Hieing to Kolob will be staying in the Hymnal.

Am I spelling Kolob wrong? It keeps popping up in my spell check.

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Posted by: twistedsister ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 09:23AM

I know right?

Just recently I went back and read the chapter on Kolob, and it reads like crazy talk! Seriously, it sounds like some bad sci fi wanna be writer wrote it. Talking all kinds of crazy things like planets and stars, and the names:

" 13 And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven."

I mean, what kind of crazy is this? Yet this is profound eternal truth?!?

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Posted by: moose ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 04:10PM


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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 04:15PM

There is a poster with a name that I just love. He calls himself "Cookoo for Kokaubeam" or some such spelling.

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Posted by: transylvania(notloggedin) ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 02:48AM

Well that's just wonderful. The Morg puts out a scholarly article to defend the book of Abraham but says that, "The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate"

Kinda like we can defend it, but you can't debate it. As in we get to make all the rules, you get to follow the rules. Rule #1 Don't use your brain. Rule #2 Refer to rule number 1. Ta Dah!! Book of Abraham Was devinely translated. Easy as that.

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Posted by: checker of minor facts ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 11:06PM

So in other words... they got nothin.

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Posted by: DR B. BUZZARD BAIT ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 11:08PM

I have a pile of turds for them to translate verified to be real turds at least the goat told me so. HAR HAR

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Posted by: BYUboner ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:32AM

So at least turds have value as manure. That's more than can be said if the BoA!

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Posted by: BYUboner ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 11:13PM

"The veracity and value...cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book's translation and historicity."

Of course not, because the Book of Abraham doesn't exist. It's a fucking hologram from Joseph's over-active imagination. I doubt any reputable scholar would consent to debate anyway.

How about a companion statement on the veracity and historicity of the Kinderhook Plates?

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Posted by: Leo Walsh ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 11:52PM

BYUboner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a companion statement on the veracity and historicity of the Kinderhook Plates?

Haha. +1

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Posted by: William Law ( )
Date: July 08, 2014 11:54PM

The "veracity and value" (as one term) cannot be settled by scholars, blah, blah, blah. That's absolutely true.

However, the veracity surely can be, and it has been found to have no veracity.

These A-holes think they are masters at playing with words. Confusing meaning to lie.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:04AM

"veracity and value " ???

How about is it what joe claimed it to be ?

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Posted by: candidexmormon ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:17AM

The 15 apostles and prophets are lying and deceiving anti-Christs.
Master manipulators who love and live a lie.

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Posted by: misterzelph ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:17AM

I didn't read it. But tell me, how did they explain the "by his own hand" part?

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:36AM

In true LDS "scholarship" fashion, they ignored it completely.

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Posted by: outsider ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:29AM

From the essay: "On many particulars, the book of Abraham is consistent with historical knowledge about the ancient world."

This is true. The BoA talks about there being Egyptians and there were Egyptians. It also mentions humans, and there were humans during that period of time.

How could Joey known this things? Let's all go and give our 10%.

On a little more serious of a note, that is a terrible essay. It's not going to help anyone who is starting to see the (un)light.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:32AM

"On many particulars, the book of Abraham is consistent with historical knowledge about the ancient world." Using that logic, I guess the essay would conclude the movie "Titanic" told a true story.

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Posted by: BYUboner ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:41AM

It's just as accurate as my Book of Mormon road map/atlas of historical Lamanite battlefields in New York (on sale now at Deseret Schnook!)

Or...

BYUboner's ancient Adamic Grammar Guide (10% off when you mention this posting, only at Deseret Schnook).

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Posted by: deco ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 12:44AM

The comments about this on the site that cannot be mentioned (rdt) are amazing.

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Posted by: Short shorts ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 09:13AM

So what about the fact that although the bulk of the papyri are missing the BOA contains two "translations" made by horny Joe and those translations are complete bullshit.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 02:54PM

What I got from the essay: Joey never claimed to know Egyptian. And we have no way of knowing how close to the facsimiles the hieroglyphics were. So after he received the text of the BOA by REVELATION, he saw the pictures and assumed they were pictures related to the revelation he'd been given. So he did his best to relate them to the things he'd learned about the ancient world (gotta throw that word "ancient" in there as many times as we can--that makes it authentic). So he was wrong, hey, he tried, but he never claimed to be able to translate. But we DO know the text is correct. It wasn't God's idea to illustrate the book, just a whim ol Joe came up with. Give him a break. He was trying to make it more interesting. He wasn't sure anyone would be cuckoo for kokaubeam.

I love to read these essays and try to figure out at what point in my mormondumb it wouldn't have worked. This one would have made me content as a TBM. It was long enough that I wouldn't have seriously read it, I would just have been ok with the fact that "scholars" (who must know it's schit since no one wants to put a name to it), had addressed this so-called troubling issue and have it covered. And there are plenty of references, which I would not have looked close enough at to see that they are all referencing mormon scriptures, talks, and writers.

However, at my questioning stage, I would have read what the issues were and then gone to the essay for a serious answer and gone, "ummm, that makes no sense. Joe claimed it was written by the hand of Abraham. He identified the facsimile completely incorrectly. Why would God not give him revelation about the correctness of that after he had given him all that specific stuff about the text." So obviously these essays are written to circle the wagons with the base. They are pretty sure that anyone who is seriously questioning is already lost.

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Posted by: shum ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 10:33AM

When the bretheren have spoken have a citron cocktail with lemon and lime. Actually, you will need to have about 3 to believe this nonsense.

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Posted by: The Invisible Green Potato ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 11:02AM

Mainstreaming and defending the truth of the BoA are mutually exclusive. Kolob is one of the "pearls" (ie batsh!t crazy ideas) in the BoA that is not to be cast before swine (ie normal people). If you are trying to mainstream (ie become more like the catholic church) then it would be best to de-emphasise the BoA for a generation before dropping it completely.

I suppose they are trying to reduce the number of people who leave when they discover the truth about the BoA, but in the long run I think they are painting themselves into a doctrinal corner.

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Posted by: apawst8 ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 01:09PM

Set aside the fact that the translation of the scrolls is wrong. They will always say that some of it is missing.

The Facsimiles are printed alongside a translation of the Facsimiles. And that translation is 100% wrong. They didn't even address the Facsimiles.

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Posted by: roslyn ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 02:30PM

The commenters also ignored the fact that the facsimiles exist, so the idea that the original papyri aren't around is a moot point. He lied, he was a fraud and all people can point to is faith, well lots of study led me to the conclusion that since Joseph Smith was a liar the church is false. Point A took me to point B.

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Posted by: dr.dave ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 01:44PM


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Posted by: dr. dave ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 01:59PM

I just read the latest essay by the mormon church and once again I am completely bewildered by the fact that intelligent people could write such a patently ridiculous essay! I did love all of the footnotes. Citing their own scholars and previous works by Joseph Smith. Isn't this a bit like Adolph Hitler writing an essay and citing other members of the Nazi High Command as reliable sources. This may be the worst essay to date.

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Posted by: William Law ( )
Date: July 09, 2014 02:27PM

It's also the worst issue in regards to the truthiness of the church. Since there is an actual artifact, the facsimiles, which have been "translated" and printed for members to see, and those translations are patently wrong, it is easy to conclude the book is a fraud.

If the BOA is a fraud, why not the other supposed translations where no artifact can be found?

BOA, as far as the church was concerned, was one of the dumbest things JS ever did. Holding to the truthfulness of the BOA, is one of dumbest things the modern church could possible do. But, then, they went off and done it.

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