So, when you took it upon yourself to try Moroni’s challenge, how would you describe the feeling that ultimately became the bedrock of your testimony?

For me, I was 12. I prayed a few times waiting for an experience I couldn’t possibly deny. When that didn’t come I tried for one that was unmistakably unique. Then I lowered the bar to special, then somewhat special. By the time I was done lowering the bar there was nothing left. I was at the lowest possible threshold of feeling. And then it came to me, of course I wasn’t going to get any sort of witness because I already knew it was true. Somehow that made so much sense and I felt so relieved and special for not needing any kind of personal witness that I accepted that as being a witness unto itself.

A belief literally supported by nothing.

OMG! You can really twist your mind like a pretzel, can't you.

I felt nothing seven times, each time I read the BOM. I just thought it was because I was too critical of the bad writing and the gory stuff I hated. I was a true lover of books, but the BOM put me to sleep. I'd rather read something--anything--else. The fault was mine. No witness, but lots of guilt over it. I wonder how many Mormons lie about this, in order to appear righteous in the eyes of others.

"A belief supported by nothing"

Mark Twain was quoted as saying, "The Book of Mormon is chloroform in print".

After seven reads, I'm surprised you didn't go into a coma;)

What is chloroform, some kind of anaesthetic?

The quotation itself must have been clever, but I find its repetition boring. Let me do my duty and Google "chloroform."

Apparently chloroform is an anesthetic, highly toxic in excessive doses, and acts rather slowly on patients.

Sounds like the Book of Mormon, all right.

Yeah, I felt nothing when I prayed, several times, about the BOM or the truthfulness of the gospel.

Of course, I had all different explanations for it. Maybe I wasn't asking in enough faith, maybe I wasn't living the gospel fully enough therefore not inviting the spirit. Maybe the Lord reveals things in his own time, not on my time.

Yes, it truly is amazing how you can twist your mind to believe and rationalize what you've been told.

It's pretty funny now, thinking back on it. If God wanted us all to know so much that his restored gospel is true, wouldn't we all get the old burning in the bosom feeling when we asked? Yet so many people don't.

I felt the "burning in the bosom" twice in my life. First time I was 6 or 7. My parents had recently converted so I decided to ask myself. I got a burning in the bosom.
I only felt this one other time at a Stake Conference where LeGrand Richards was speaking. I was 12 or 13 and was probably the worlds record holder for M'rbating. Still, while the congregation sang Spirit of God Like a Fire is Burning I felt it again (though technically I was no where near worthy).
Funnily enough, when I finally got around to reading the BofM from cover to cover in my older teen years and prayed about it I never felt anything like I did as a child or self abusing adolescent. Still, those two experiences carried me through many many years of TBM-ness and I clung to those tightly even as the shelf was falling off the wall.
Funny thing, the human mind.

I thought I felt the Spirit when I prayed about the BofM, until I realized that I get the identical feeling when I watch Lord of the Rings or listen to Iron Maiden.

Never could stomache the BOM, so after weeks of stress, my husband held me under the water. Not exactly, but he was very-very determined.

emmahailyes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my husband held me under the water. Not
> exactly,

... wait, what?

I never took the challenge. Sure, I reflected on that passage, but I already knew the church was true because my parents had taught me all my life that I had to believe it or I would be sorry.
I did, however, pray to ask God if he really was. It was my testimony of a loving Heavenly Father who knew my name that became my foundation. I knew that was true because he called Joseph by name in the sacred grove.


OOPS...

What a mindfuck I experienced for years of my life in my late teens and early twenties as I read the BoM and prayed fervently for a witness of its truth. Guess what. Years down the road, I finally did receive that undeniable witness regarding the truth about the BoM. I was 29 years old an read the CES letter. I used the power of intellect and reasoning rather than yearning for some super speshul feeling in my bosom (lol bosom, I hate that word). The Lard works in mysterious ways.

Mmmm, bosoms! I love bosoms!

Seeing how the church and the "family" act is witness enough that there is no way it could be true. TSCC is weak. Nature is strong!

And that happened around 18 times, including a few that involved fasting along with the prayer.

When I started having doubts, I looked at the word "manifest" in Moroni's promise again, and thought about what that means, and even looked it up.

I realized that if I was wondering if the truth had already been manifested to me, then clearly it hadn't.

The next questions, "Why not?" and "What's the problem here?" started me out of the church.

My witness of TSCC was never extraordinary. Just standard, run-of-the-mill frisson, same as I felt for dramatic movies/music/books etc.

In my teens, I did have a non-religion-specific God-like spiritual experience that was much more powerful, but I was in a dark place in my life at the time so I think my brain would have happily latched on to any thought that provided hope for the future.

Interestingly, I was in a dark place in my life again in my 30s, but that time when I prayed, I got absolutely nothing. So that pretty much discredits my first experience as a hormonal teen.

I was 21. I got nothing. It was scary.

It took me 10 years to finally admit that the REASON I got
nothing was that the Church was false.

I remember with several investigators who were already believing Christians where they got an answer and the answer was the book was the work of the devil meant to deceive. One woman was very adamant about this. I remember the first time it happened I was a greeny and asked my companion if we could just go to the coast and watch the ships come through the channel for a while.

If my mother had taught me correctly, things would have been completely different... but she didn't know herself - still doesn't. A terrible upbringing! She was naive, vulnerable, "lost"... now a few more generations are lost or getting there: what a shame, what a loss. You can't love what you can't see. It may never be found again.

Bare false witness.

M@t

It took me over twenty-five years as a convert member to read it through, It is terrible. The first counselor in the SP told me he had read it twenty-something times and believed it. I suppose if you can read anything that many times you can brainwash yourself into believing anything. I would not want to buy anything written by someone who read the BoM more than once and even at once it makes me skeptical of damage to one's writing style.

That's basically my Moroni 10 story as well, I didn't get anything in particular. I had hoped that I would but I wasn't sure what to expect. I had read the book of mormon cover to cover in a short amount of time, for the first time, and was ironically on a spiritual high of sorts. I had that thought that I'd always known it was true and therefore nothing else was required. I felt spiritual/warm/etc during the thought process, which I assumed was a manifestation of the holy ghost. At the time I was pretty sure.

But after serving a mission a living a little and having lots of spiritual and not spiritual experiences, I realized those same feelings in other times/places/situations. At first I thought it was God just blessing all aspects of my life, religious or not, but eventually it just didn't make sense why fiction, movies, etc could evoke some of the same responses. Just one of many small things

I am a covert and I felt the spirit a heap of times, 2nd time I felt it was when the elder told me about the PLan of sav, I was 100% sure it was a load of crap, until someone powerfully said the "I know this church to be the only true church on earth" next thing I know this powerful feeling came over me, set my baptism date for 2 weeks later, I was so shocked to read all the problems about the church, it's very clearly a load of crap, but if I hadn't read all the information on line I would be sooooooooo sure it was true, because I just felt the spirit so many times, And I have a heap of story's about the spirit and revelation about things I could have never guessed on my own. It would be easy to keep going with the church if it was not for the fact that the truth about JS is beyond a joke.

Even at this point (not been to church in years) I still feel I would not be shocked to die and find out the church is true, but I would be bloody pissed that god the father picked such a 100% loser to be the prophet. If I follow the spirit I go back to church, if I follow my brain I keep the 10% and enjoy my weekend.

I read all the internet stuff just before my mission, but I still left for the mission because of all the powerful spiritual events up to that point. But I must say been a full time sales person for the church didn't really help, but been a convert and a bit older I did get to have some fun times, been a ZL and getting my zone to go clubbing, putting vodka in one of the elders drinks so he could enjoy the night more <g> meeting a girl and getting a blow job in the mission presidents car. getting Xed 2 weeks before going home, i was really upset I didn't get to meet a apostle when I was Xed, I don't know why but I had it in my head that they would x a missionary, I had a few questions for them :)


I should do a exit story really.

It's sooooo nice to be free

Our emotions are tied to many things: our desires, our past experience, our fears and anxieties. You can work yourself up to believe in anything.

Outside external evidence, you should not try to believe in something based on warm feelings. Disney knows how to manipulate those feelings as does any good story teller. If your parents want you to believe and you want to please your parents, then those warm feelings will just verify your desire to fit in.

My testimony was based off the chills and tingles, but it was always cognitive dissonance when I left those same feelings watching fictional movies.