"So, the church seems to be coming clean about historical problems it can no longer sweep under the carpet. In the last year, the church has published on its website (without by-lines) the following admissions. We can only presume these are now the official positions of the church:
The Book of Abraham is not a 'translation', although Joseph clearly claimed it to be. The Book of Mormon is not a 'translation', as the plates were not even in the room while Joseph had his face in the hat. The run of prophets from BY to Harold B. Lee taught false doctrine regarding race, and the role of souls in the pre-existence. Brigham Young himself taught grundles of false doctrines regarding race, blood atonement, and Adam-God. This eviscerates the claim that if Joseph was a prophet, then the church is true. It strengthens the claim of the RLDS and Fundamentalists that the SLC church is in apostasy. I could go on, but you get the point: the current LDS church is (rightfully) chipping away at its own foundation. With so many of their foundational claims abandoned or weakened, what is left?
The brethren. The brethren know the way. Follow the brethren. Be obedient to the brethren.
And therein lay the BIG problem the church has. With its historical underpinnings compromised and discarded, all that is left is the brethren. They hold the keys. They talk to God. They know the way.
The problem is, when was the last time they did anything remotely worthy of their titles? Prophets that don't prophesize, Seers that don't see, and Revelators without revelation. They are administrators of a reverent corporation. Time will continue to expose them as nothing special...as crusty and dusty old men struggling to keep up with a rapidly-evolving society. Without their historical legitimacy, what makes them worthy of following?"
I find that to be a great summary, and if it comes down to relying on the brethren for prophecy, we know that anything they say can be written off by the church as wrong in the future.
How can TBMs still believe?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2014 09:38AM by ragingphoenix.
Thanks for posting this. It is indeed a fine summary. I'd never thought is the church = the brethren as succinctly as this. And if hats he case, what are LDS people following?
One of the best things I've read about it all. Thanks.
There really is no good reason anymore to be Mormon. There is nothing left to fool you so if you want to be Mormon you have to dupe yourself. You have to participate actively in the deceit. You must shut off your OWN mind.
It blows my mind that it's all right there. The church has nothing left to stand on, but the strength of belief will continue to trump all of the evidence because most people value feelings above facts.
Yes Mutt, ragingphoenix' post and summary of current admissions also eviscerates any claim the currently serving "brethren" may have to the legitimacy of their offices. If BY is discredited, so is Monson, and so is the whole doctrine of "foundation of the true church on prophets and priesthood keys".
They are like the small print on the back of an instruction sheet. The members are not expected to know about them, let alone read them. Since they exist, the leadership can dismiss issues with a condescending wave of the hand and say 'Oh, that has been discussed.'
Back when I was an active member, I never had any discussions with other mormons on such topics. Because these conversations would have happened either in church, or with visiting teacher.
Thanks be to dog for the intertoobs. Because these conversations are happening with a modicum of privacy and anonymity. What a new world. It's the exmormon moment.
I was alone for many, many years in my protest against Mormonism. The internet brought me tons of virtual comrades. You're one of them. Thanks for being there, Devoted. And to everyone else, a big thanks indeed.
sophia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Isn't Babycenter kind of a tbm place? Would this > be new information for people who usually post > there?
Mormonism & More is an open-minded board. There is a lot of great posting there.
Baby Center also has boards for faithful Mormons.
The good thing is, there is cross pollination between these boards. People on the faithful boards are well aware of Mo & More and some undoubtedly read it. The faithful boards, while monitored to keep them free of overt criticism of the church, still have lively discussions (including comments from ex-Mormons and non-Mormons).
Faithful Mormons are exposed to differing viewpoints through these boards. It’s a good thing.
The essays are an admission the Mormon Church isn't what it claims to be. In the essays, they admit that the only evidence supporting the Mormon Church's foundational claims is "faith" and nothing else. They also agree with what Mormon critics have been saying about Mormon Church history and doctrine for decades and decades.
Sadly, most TBMs I know haven't even heard of the essays. And the essays are unsigned and written so poorly that they don't make for an interest read--so TBMs don't read them even when shared. Granted, that's just anecdotal and based on my experience. I suspect, however, many other people here would say the same thing.
Yeah, I think most TBMs aren't aware of the essays. The essays have been put on the church website, but they haven't been advertised at all. We ex-mos know about them because we're actually looking out for them, same with the apologists, but what about the average TBM? Most of them are not aware of it.
I think it's important that we make all the TBMs we know aware of the essays. This is information that they NEED to know.
The church has done the right thing in finally coming clean about these issues and at least attempting to address them, but the essays need to be spread around more.
The essays seem to be targetted at critics of the church, but really it's the TBMs who are in most need of reading this information.
FAIR Wiki is also a site that TBMs need to read. It delves into these issues much further, and also smaller (but also troubling) issues that aren't major enough to have an essay dedicated to them on the church website.
lds.org and FAIR should be sites we link TBMs to, since there's no way they can claim these sites are "anti", yet they still list many problems with the church that TBMs need to be aware of.
"God really shouldn't remind one of the Nazi party. Obedience over righteousness? Has that ever worked out well for anyone but Nephi? Coffee and earrings are NBD, but racism and Prop 8 and polygamy are."