I am reluctant go to this topic, but I have a serious question.

While both of us were TBM (and my wife still is active but not a true believer), my wife introduced a device into our love making in our first two years of married. At first, I was taken aback and not sure how to react. But it really helped her pleasure and I found it very healthy in our relationship. It has never been an issue.

But while I hear a lot about how porn likely affects women's view of themselves and concerns that porn may replace them in their love life, I never hear in the church or this thread the converse.

Has anyone heard in church any mention that use of devices is immoral?

Outside of church, any comments that use of devices may replace the men in their lives, or the consequence on men's self-esteem?

In over 40 years of church going, never heard this mentioned even in private interviews. Perhaps too strong a topic for church? Personally, I never had a problem with it and nor have my friends.

Remember the bloody row that happened when for a short time worthiness interviews included inquiries about oral sex?

No, they'd never bring up sex toys. Doing that would force them to acknowledge that women actually have sexual feelings and might even - gasp! - orgasm.

I have tried to point this dichotomy out before. Men, sometimes, especially as they age, need extra "stimulation", so they may start to view "porn" (I prefer "erotic material"). Women, may need extra stimulation at almost any time in their lives, and they use vibrators (and other such stuff). Honestly, the objective of both is to arouse, so why is one bad and the other probably viewed as acceptable???????????????????????????

Some things that are true, are not very useful. You'd be wise to remember that T-Rex.

Don't go and bring all the little details of history to light!

Seriously though. My wife and I have several devices. As much as the church intrudes into people's bedrooms, I don't think they really want to go there. Its a no win conversation for LDS Corp.

Go Orgasms!

Isn't their stance pretty much anything you can't tell your parents you shouldn't be doing? Sex toys=bad, unless you know mom and dad use them too then I guess it's ok.

can't do anything according to the LDS church.

It was NOT a topic I even wanted to discuss with my parents. I had my sister tell them I was pregnant . . .

I know men exed for behavior unbecomeing, for porn. Anyone every hear about a women exed for contracptions? See the church does treat women equal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 11:31AM by get her done.

The topic is sex toys vibrators, etc

I think it was a typo on "contraptions."

I wouldn't care if they did, I can honestly say that "Those" devices are what saved my marriage. Due to medical issues I am not the man I used to be and so things don't always work. Doesn't mean that my wife has to suffer because of me. If a couple really care about each other then they will do what it takes to make the other one happy.

Apparently, ChurchCo can't deal logically with human sexuality. I also think this is related to why they can't or don't refer to all the info that's out there ('self-help' & counseling) about teaching relationship & marriage SKILLS, FGS.


it's like... they Expect EVERYONE to depend 1000+ % on 'the gospel' (which, as we ALL KNOW means CHURCH!)

TSCC has no logic when it comes to sexuality, especially because it seems to be a threat to the leaders' power. If women and men were given free reign to control their own bodies, they migh have free reign to think for themselves.

I know several TBM women that use toys and they aren't afraid to mention it. But if their husbands looked at porn, now that's just wrong.

Hogwash!! Women who orgasm frequently are more likely to be satisfied.

Edit to add: This is in response to a wild eyed claim that has since been deleted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2011 03:52PM by Devoted Exmo.

Edited, as post I replied to has disappeared.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2011 04:08PM by helamonster.

Seriously, I'd be shocked if there were any statistic supporting that claim.

"This dildo feels so much better than your penis, honey. Sorry but it makes me curious to know if someone else's penis can feel just as good. I must now embark on my quest for the perfect penis."

I am a connoisseur of sex toys and may have over $1k worth. Each time i buy on i donate it to my DW who is a jackmo like me. Even as a TBM she loved them. Some points:

1) There are a bunch of crappy MO "adult" shops in UT county and don't forget about the young moms who drive around UT county with "slumber party" decals on their SUVs (they sell dildos at those FYI.)

2) What husband would not be supportive and want to encourage his wife to get horny?? Womens sex toys are made for that purpose. Women are less likely to cheat and masturbate than men, esp in good relationships. Vibrators do not threaten a mans position in the bedroom.

3) Porn will drive a man to want a 24 y/o hottie to sit on his lap. A jackrabbit vibe will keep a good woman at home on a Friday night.

Boob jobs are kosher in TSCC but tats and piercings not- there's no method to Mormon cultural madness.

I was told by a woman while I was visiting teaching her about 'the silver bullet.' When I expressed my total ignorance she told me she was taking me to the adult shop the next day and buying me one. I specifically asked if it was OK with the church. She said she thought it was all OK if used in marriage. The next day she did buy me one. (Thanks!)

Since that time I have talked carefully to other mos about vibrators and such and the answer I get seems to be they think the church doesn't get involved in that stuff. So as long as it is used together for a married couple and both parties agree it would be ok. As long as there was no pornography involved.

I have also paid it forward and bought some devices for TBM friends. Some have used them and others never did.

I should make it clear that I never asked anyone in 'authority' about the usage. Even then I thought it was none of their business! But I did ask other TBM women. While in Utah last month I saw "husband and wife shops." (groan) and know that many pure romance sales people are lds.

I am not trying to defend the church's stance, but based on things I have heard I think the explanation might be that a toy is just an object, but when you watch porn you are watching and supporting real human beings engaged in sinful behavior.

I remember a TBM saying that violence in movies was more acceptable than love scenes, because the violence was all pretend, but love scenes involved people actually touching someone they weren't married to.

I think no one has given me a good reason why a vibrator is OK for a woman to use, but porn is bad for a man to use, if that is what gets his rocks rolling...

Seriously, I have no problem with either, but one is OK and one is bad, but it illustrates the different way we treat and view each others titillating measures (no pun intended...). Men like visual stuff to get aroused, women prefer to imagine and the vibrator facilitates that...

Yes and women read romance novels chock full of "the nasty" done five ways to christmas and that is way more acceptable than a man seeing a picture of a naked woman. Ok.

Mormons don't like porn because it puts (sinful) images in their minds that once they see they can never ever get rid of (scary, right?). As far as using a vibrator during sex as a couple, wouldn't it just be extra stimulation?? I guess I don't see how using this as stimulation compares to porn.

Also I know some TBMs might consider looking at porn cheating because you are thinking about someone else in a sexual way. And we all know that once you think something it is just as though you actually did it! (That's what we were taught in the church, anyway).

I guess I don't really see how porn and vibrators can really compare. Do I think porn is evil? No. Do I think vibrators are evil? No. But they are different. And porn is wrong to look at according to the mormon church regardless if you are male or female, so I don't think they are treating the genders differently. Porn is stimulating the brain with sexual images while vibrators are stimulating you-know-what directly. Just seems different to me.

Stimulation is stimulation. Doesn't matter if it comes from porn or her Rabbit vibe. It's a double standard to suggest that men viewing porn is bad but women using vibes is good.

It's all good, as far as I'm concerned.

You know why?

Porn/vibes don't kiss.
Porn/vibes don't cuddle.
Porn/vibes don't give oral.
Porn/vibes don't say 'I love you.'
Porn/vibes don't bring you a glass of water.
Porn/vibes don't treat you with affection, or rub your back, or massage your feet after a long day.

They are just tools for stimulation. Tools cannot replace that which we humans can give to one another for the sake of building intimacy.

It sounded like the women wouldn't be using the vibrators by themselves, alone, masturbating, they would be using them with their husbands. But it sounded as though the husbands would be looking at porn by themselves. I guess I just see the situations as different.

Now, if the LDS church thinks its ok to use vibrators as a couple than it should also think it's ok to watch porn as a couple, too.

But saying using a vibrator as a couple is ok but not letting a man watch porn alone is a double standard- I just don't see that.

Porn stimulates the brain which gives an erection to a man. Vibrators stimulate the clitoris which stimulates the brain which causes an orgasm. Men and women are different. Don't tread on men because of their differences...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2011 02:31PM by elcid.

regarding women and toys, was a letter from the local authorities in my soCal stake admonishing women to not attend Passion Parties, which is like Pampered Chef for sex toys.

http://www.passionparties.com/


I had attended one before that letter with a bunch of other women from my ward. I had a great time, but we all kept the party on the down low because we knew that lots of other members would disapprove of us having sex with our husband AND actually enjoying it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2011 02:48PM by Queen of Denial.

I'm all for battery-operated boyfriends (BOB) and other marital aids.

Ron

T-Rex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Outside of church, any comments that use of devices may replace the men in their lives, or the consequence on men's self-esteem?

In the wider non-Mormon world, I would say that vibrators are pretty much mainstream. A woman owning a vibrator would be considered unremarkable. Many women have trouble learning how to orgasm, and a vibrator is (for many) the surest route to orgasm. While some become dependant on their vibrators for orgasm, my opinion is that most women view it as a fun accessory to sex.

IMO a woman who knows how to satisfy herself has a lot more to bring to an intimate relationship. Men really should have nothing to fear.