Excuse me while I rant.

I feel like chopped liver. In fact, I think that’s going to be my new moniker.

I came to the conclusion that nobody will ever love and care about me the way I love and care about other people. Don’t get me wrong, I get a fair amount of satisfaction in taking care of other people, but, boy, I wish sometimes they would reciprocate. I feel like I have a tattoo on my forehead that reads, “Abuse me all you want, I don’t care!”

Background: I have 2 adult kids and a DH, who is my second husband. All are nevermos. I’m an exmo and I’ve been out since I was 20 or so, 27 years.

Couple examples: My DH’s feelings are very easily hurt. So I work really hard not to hurt him, often at the expense of my own feelings. But he doesn’t do the same. Like get this, one time when we owned a business, and I had an employee, Karen, working with me. My DH comes in, and as always pours himself a cup of coffee, and gets it everywhere. But as he’s taking out a paper towel to clean up, he says, “I don’t want to leave a mess for Karen.” In other words, he’s perfectly fine leaving a mess for me, but he’s careful about Karen’s feelings. If I didn’t clean up after his coffee mess, there would be 6” of sticky mess there right now. I called him out on that. Why is it ok to leave a mess for me, but we have to clean up for Karen’s sake? Well, of course that hurt his feelings. I’ve tried everything with the coffee; I put out a plate to catch his drippings, but he misses the plate. Or the plate goes in the dishwasher, and he just can’t get another one out! I’ve tried nagging. I’ve tried gritting my teeth and keeping quiet and cleaning it up myself. Nothing works. (The mess would not irritate me so much, Gawd knows I clean up thousands of other messes in a day, but that comment about Karen just pisses me off!)

They all forget my birthday. I can count on my right hand the number of birthday cakes I’ve had, and those were from people outside the family. It’s an afterthought. One time
when my DH DID remember my birthday, I overheard him on the phone with his cousin, saying “I can’t do anything that weekend, it’s Chopped Liver’s birthday. Yea, what a bummer!” Wow, sorry to ruin your plans by being born that day! And I never hear the end of it if I “forget” their birthdays. (I did that one year because they forgot mine. Boy they have short memories!)

Like during the holidays, my DexH, my kids’ father, throws a colossal fit if he doesn’t have them at his house when he wants them. Because he throws a fit and I don’t, he gets the kids for the holidays. I’ve actually heard them say, “Oh mom won’t mind”.

This is by far not everything, just a few examples.

Granted, I would say 90% of the time, I really don’t mind. I don’t care what restaurant we eat at, I don’t care what TV shows we watch, and I don’t care what the temperature is, I’ll get a sweater if I’m too cold. So I guess because they are used to me not caring, it’s hard to judge when I do care. But you would think after years of telling them what I care about, they would GET IT! But they don’t.

And I do get some satisfaction out of taking care of other people. It’s not all drudgery. I like to feel that I’m needed. But I really really really hate being taken for granted, and they do it to me all the damn time!

I have had the conversation with them. I’ve tried everything. I’ve called my husband on the coffee mess. I’ve explained that I’m careful with his feelings. I’ve tried having a colossal fit when the kids decided not to come on the holidays. I’ve tried explaining my feelings to them. And nothing works. I still get blown off.

I am sick and tired of caring about other people and people not respecting my feelings back! I suppose it sounds selfish, but (here we go!) what am I? Chopped Liver?

So, I’ve determined that I’m going to start being selfish. No more Mrs. Nice Guy. I am going to be less careful of my husband’s feelings, especially if it’s at the expense of mine. I am not going to care so much about other people. They don’t care that much about me, why should I? I’ve going to go to Vegas over the holidays, and they can all come with me or stay home. I don’t care any more.

It’s true. There will never be another person that will love and care for me the way I love and care for them. They matter a great deal to me, but I just hate knowing that I don’t matter that much to them.

Do any of you feel that way? Is it more pronounced among mormons and exmormons because we’ve been taught to serve serve serve, and bow our heads and say yes?


Anyway, thanks for letting me rant. This is the only place I can do this.

Since your family has been programmed to ignore you and tromp on you, it will be a bit rough going at first. But if you consistently and persistently open your mouth when you first feel the stomach tighten and demand your boundaries be respected, you will see change.

Not all change will seem to your liking at first but when you have ignored your boundaries for your whole life, you may not recognize when a change is good for you. Actually, your husband will probably be glad to find there really is a person in the body he married that demands respect.

Good luck.

I've had family like that. FOr birthdays I usually tell them, Happy BIrthday. I got you what you got me for my last ( 2,3, 4)birthdays, but I forgot to put a ribbon on it. Then I had them the ribbon.

If you aren't familiar with it already, read this short summary of the Stanford Prison Experiment.

http://www.experiment-resources.com/stanford-prison-experiment.html

I find the basis of this experiment can be applied to most inter-personal relationships. Watch out what role you put yourself and others in, because it will effect the way that they treat you.

After reading your post I can't help but wonder when this all started. Just guessing you've mostly put up with it.

Something I'd put up on my FB page about the nice girl syndrome.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-lois-frankel/nice-girl-syndrome_b_869362.html#s285442&title=What_Is_a

With everything that needs change the first thing you need to do is realize something is wrong.

When I realized I wasn't feeling emotionally up to par I decided to look into bio-identical hormones. Found a doctor and now my mind is clear and I have more energy. It really made a difference. Here's a site to get started:

http://www.suzannesomers.com/health-and-hormones/

I agree that nobody will care as much about yourself as you will. When it comes to marriage, we have to decide if the good out weighs the bad. Your husband takes you for granted and his feelings are hurt when you talk about it? Not a good sign, but we have to pick our battles. You have to decide if you need a vacation or a seperation.

I would give your husband a week to change and then file for divorce.

I definitely have those days. Yesterday was one of them, but I couldn't bring myself to post about it. Leaving the Mormon church does not automatically change the training Mormon women and girls receive to be doormats.

I find that the more I do for the people around me, the less they appreciate. I had a conversation with Mr. Piper the other day about his expectations of me. He said he had no expectations, but I told him that when he leaves a mess and walks away, that is either an expectation that I will clean up after him or he believes in a cleaning fairy. He couldn't argue with that. lol

I don't have the solution for you, but I just wanted to say I know exactly how you feel. Being a nice girl all the time will wear you out and drive you crazy.

The cleaning fairy comment made me smile.

That's exactly it. My husband CLAIMS he cares that much about me, but then there's that dam coffee mess again. I have asked him, who does he THINK will clean that up? He never has an answer. Hahaha he knows what the answer is but he's afraid to say it!

I asked him the other day, did he notice I say thank you when he does one of his chores that are "his"? He said yes. I said he never says thankyou to me for anything. I got a blank stare. You could tell he was searching his mind for a time he said thankyou but couldn't come up with any. I said BINGO! My point exactly.

Hopefully I got my point across. BUT, he'll be good for a couple weeks and then bam it will be back to normal. But not this time! I'm going to be Johnny on the spot and tell him he's slipping.

Not married and no kids, but I can relate, a little. It's the sibs and parents!
Years ago, every Thanksgiving, I'd get the leg, almost as long as I can remember. Well, you change as you get older. Eventually I did prefer the white meat. But do you think anyone would ask what I would like? NO! Everyone else was always asked what part of the turkey they wanted. One year, and I don't think it was the first time, the remark was made as turkey was being served, "oh just give Susan the leg, that's what she eats." One year I flipped and got all teary eyed, and had a fit. I nearly cried. I just couldn't see why no one would ask me, didn't I deserve some respect?
They all still think that's funny and joke about it every year. I never have had a sense of humor about that.
I do get white meat, though!
Susan

Instead of sitting there in silence - fuming - speak up!

"I know I've always wanted the leg before, but now I'd like to try the white meat!"

Are people supposed to read your mind? Especially when you're changing a previously established pattern of behavior?

I understand much of what you are saying. I find myself in a very similar situation. As has been already suggested, I am in this position of my own making. I very carefully taught my family that my needs were not important, it's OK to ignore them. I was/am attentive, supportive, and nurturing. Like you I am facing burn out.

However, approximately 6 months ago I started asking for more in return. I started insisting that I was worth more consideration. I started being less attentive, supportive and nurturing. I began to craft a future that had my direction and desires on it. And,.... in a nutshell, all hell broke loose.

Despite years of being told "you don't have to do that" apparently, I did. When I stopped "doing that" I damaged the calm of all those around me. None of us live in a vacuum. The push-back was and is still extreme. You wont have to divorce your husband after one week :-) Chances are good he will be the one running for the lawyer.

My DS (28 yrs old) has adapted well. We are closer than ever, and now have a relationship that has evolved far beyond my wildest dreams. DH on the other hand moved out months ago. He just received another morg leadership calling, and has informed me that unless I return to the church our marriage is finito. (June 8th was 30th anniversary.) The loss of a marriage is heart breaking. The gain of my life back is just beginning to bring a sparkle back to my eyes.

In some circles chopped liver is called paté and is considered a delicacy. The only thing left for you to decide, is what are you worth?

I understand that.

I was ding somiler things for my family plus keeping them appart and not at each others throats duties.

When I finaly spoke up my mother tended to talk over me as if I didnt exist my sister corrected me like I was a small child that had to lern that I had to be obediant to her.

When I coudnt stand it any more and pushed to be herd my mother took me to the doctor saying I was depresed. Before the appointment I started to think I was defective for not being able to manage everything they all want of me but none of them asked any of that of themselves so I didnt get the meds i'm not putting anything into my body just because someone else dosent like me trying to stand up for myself.

Good for you.

Those programmed to believe that their value lies in service to others often have a very hard time standing up for themselves.

You are taught that you came to earth already judged before you were even BORN! You were "valiant" and so you came in a white skin body and were born in America. Already the carrot/stick. Less valiant you would have been born in India.

This template of judginess eats away at us subconsciously like an acid drip. They judge us, we judge them, we judge the kids, the church judges all of us, we judge each other.

As a second rate person (after all, if you had REALLY been "valiant", wouldn't you have been born male?), you have to scuttle around meeting the expectations of everyone around you to compensate for your less valiant self using up valuable resources needed for those with the priesthood, or those God loaned to you as a Mother in Zion (remembering always that they don't really belong to you, they are HF's).

What belongs to you? Absolutely nothing. In fact, if you displease those who have the power to pull your worthless celestial body through the veil, your husband will have your children. He will replace you with one of the countless single WORTHY sisters and you will be hovering around as a naked intelligence watching him have sex with one of the Worthies.

NOW- given THAT backdrop, do you wonder why you have, like, this urge to scuttle around wiping up coffee spills made by your Priesthood Holder? Yessuh and best you make it quick.

STOP. Stop wiping up after coffee messes right now. Go to www.solutions.com and buy their magic absorbent mat for under the coffeepot. Or do like I did- Go to the Deseret Industries and get a big cafeteria style tray and put it under the coffee maker, lined with a kitchen towel.

Realize that you are allowing yourself to judge you based on how clean the area is. LET IT GET DIRTY. When someone complains, tell them where the cleaning supplies are. "Oh, honey, I'm so glad you're developing an interest. Sponges are under the counter."

This is all about respect. You will never get it from others unless you have it for yourself. And it is great fun to get it because it's not really hard. We just don't know what it looks like because we've been Mollies surrounded by Mollies.

Anagrammy

I read the book "The Disease To Please" and it pretty much summed me up.

If my Mum wants me to do something and I don't want to, she says that I'm giving her palpitations. They magically go away when I do what she wants.

I think you should do more things for yourself. Take up some new interests and chat to new people. You don't have to try to earn your place in someone's affections. If you do, you will just collect more people who use you like a doormat.

Decent people can actually resent someone doing everything for them - because it makes them feel like they are forever in that person's debt. Lazy selfish people just think "bring it on", and when they have worn you out they will wait until the next mug comes along.

I would start by cultivating opinions. Your opinions matter. Begin to have an opinion about everything -- what restaurant you want to go to, what movie you want to see, whether you would like the room cooler or warmer. Obviously, you'll make compromises with other people, but you should be getting your way a fair amount of the time.

Call your ex in August or September to have a discussion about how to split the holidays. He gets Thanksgiving, you get Christmas. Next year you'll switch. Or you host one set of adult kids, he hosts the other, and you switch at Christmas. If he throws a fit, throw one right back at him. Have fun with it. Cultivate your inner b****. There is such a thing as being too nice and too agreeable. He has taken advantage of you for too long. (Of course you have to keep in mind that at a certain point, adult kids will often develop their own plans.)

Your husband's 'widdle feewings' get easily hurt? Awwwww. Tell him matter-of-factly that he needs to clean up after himself. If he gives you a hurt look, tell him the maid called in sick today and hand him a wet sponge.

Let people be unhappy with you. *They will get over it.* (-- which is some of the best advice I ever got.)

Can I start a Summer Fan Club?

Ana

Aw, thanks for the lift! :-)

Sending some love back 'atcha.

summer Wrote:
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>+1.. Excellent ideas.... be clear, use humor, set boundaries, and teach them how to treat you!!

I've decided that we are going to......
I have some ideas I want to share with you...

Oh and hubby can stuff his hurt feelings in his Xmas stocking with a bag of coal! :-)

Then, NEVER EVER take any of it personally! Just stop it right now! ya hear? :-) Remember what is about THEM and what is about YOU.

You go girl!!

I sometimes get the same kind of shit in my life. But not to the same extent as you do, I think.

An NLP tape helped me. It really improved things in my life, several years back.

You might not like what I have to say.

First of all, I do sympathize. I think every wife and mother feels like you do, from time to time. I also think it is very hard--if not impossible--to change a spouse.

The bottom line is that it is easier to change your own behavior and your attitude.

I love Anagrammy's story about the coffee tray! Often, we lump all our minor irritations into one huge problem. Yes, I'm being mean, and trivializing your situation. I used to be beaten by my TBM husband. I have a painful, incurable disease to cope with. All this helped me realize what is important. Separate out each problem individually, and decide what you can do to solve it.

If you can't solve a problem, ask yourself if it is worth risking your marriage or the happy tone of your home or your children's self esteem. Pick your battles. I think you're a good mother to put your children high up on your list.

If you can't change what happens, change yourself, instead!

My husband left his wet towel on the bathroom floor every day of our marriage. I asked him politely, I reminded him, I made jokes, I got angry, I installed more towel racks, I bought new towels. I tried leaving it wet on the floor for next time, but he would just use my towel. Nothing worked. Then, I deliberately changed my attitude. It took me 2 seconds to pick up that towel. My husband was showering and getting dressed in a suit to go to work every day, and he was good at his job, and he helped give us a good life. The towel meant he was in a hurry, and distracted with the pressure of his career.

Your story reminds me of many doctor's wives I know. They all agree that the sweet "bedside manner" is used only with their patients. These men are very caring and polite at work, but when they get home, they release their stress onto their poor wife and kids. Doctors have a high divorce rate.

My family has never forgotten my birthday, because I have always reminded them, several times, in advance. Why set yourself up?

Never test people, because they will fail. Don't wait and see if your husband remembers your anniversary--make fun plans with him, instead. All this is common sense. If he forgets special occasions, that means he's distracted. It does not mean he doesn't care about you

When my kids were little, I always baked my own birthday cake. I could have any kind of cake I wanted, and we had fun decorating it together. I appreciated any little hand-made thing they gave me. I have always expected them to celebrate with me. I also expect them to be loving, kind, and decent human beings.

If you just hang in there, your children will become adults, and what everyone says is TRUE: "They will appreciate you when they grow up, especially when they become parents themselves."

Some posters have given you good advice about the holidays. It gets more complicated when your kids get married, and they have to accommodate the in-laws. I have had Thanksgiving dinner either early or late, or even the night before, have given up Christmas Eve in order to have Christmas day with my kids, etc. Keep your eye on the goal, which is for everyone, including you, to have as peaceful and happy holiday as possible. Your goal is not to butt heads or get into a power struggle.

I've had some sad times--all alone in my house on Christmas Eve, too late to go anywhere, because my kids' flight was delayed. Home sick in bed, while my kids went out and had fun. My youngest daughter and I ate Christmas Eve dinner alone, one year, because the others all had dates and parties to go to. (We made the best of it, and that is one of my fondest memories with her!)

You can have your own family Christmas celebration a few days before Christmas. We have our own little "Night Before Christmas Eve" celebration, because we spend Christmas with both extended families. I know that to some, this might seem like being a doormat, but it involves a huge attitude change!

Being cooperative, flexible, and easy-going, has paid off, in the long run. I'm not a b**ch, and I'm not chopped liver with my children, either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2011 08:13PM by forestpal.

And not only wives and mothers either. I'm none of those things and the same thing happens to me. I always have to initiate anything with my extended family. ALWAYS. I found the long-lost cousins and re-established contact; they didn't look for me. I travel to see the family; they don't come to see me. I invite them to events; they don't invite me. My cousin's daughter sent me a graduation announcement. It was the first time her family said anything to me unprompted since she was a year old. I send Christmas cards every year; they don't send me cards.

It's only by typing this that I realize how much I've grown to resent it. I've put up with it for years so that I can have something resembling contact with my family.

At least many of you have families and spouses that you can complain about. That does not mean that you need to let others walk all over you.

But it might be good to remember: Some of us don't have anybody...

another guy Wrote:
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> At least many of you have families and spouses
> that you can complain about. That does not mean
> that you need to let others walk all over you.
>
> But it might be good to remember: Some of us don't
> have anybody...

Good point. Sorta puts it all in perspective!
When we have a family the dynamics go with it.
Being grateful for what we have is a great art and very powerful. It's a kind of attitude that tends to bring out the best in others.

I realize this post is from quite awhile ago, but if the original chopped liver ever comes across this, could you please email me? I found this site because I did a google search for, "everyone loves... why am I chopped liver." This page came up. I would love to be able to talk to you and see how things have progressed. I just got married a few weeks ago and TOTALLY felt like chopped liver. I'm the bride, right? That's kinda the opposite of how it should go. Everyone made the whole day either about themselves or about my husband. I've been working this out in my head and trying to figure out why nobody seems to care how I feel. The only conclusion I've come up with so far is maybe how I value myself, but then I think... it's pretty hard to value yourself when no one else does. Anyway, I would love to talk to you personally. Please email me. My email is elleymae at live dot com.

Like it or not, we teach people how to treat us.

It took me a long time to learn that NOBODY will love and respect me for very long if I don't love and respect myself.

Learning what that means can be a long journey, but one you must take to get your needs met.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2011 10:32PM by orphan.

I just got home from spending 6-1/2 weeks in Colorado at my boyfriend's house babysitting the dog he chose to get 6 months ago knowing he might end up having to commute every week to California for his job. I know nobody in Colorado. Of course, he was home every weekend, but I spent all week alone with a dog that I know is the innocent party in this, so I go there and care for her, but she is A LOT of work as she is a HUGE puppy--about 80 pounds and a year old and even he says, "A little schizo."

I could go into long stories about it, but even if I did that--I let him know in no uncertain terms how this will "pan out"--as I let my ex walk all over me and my family walk all over me. I, for one, will NEVER marry again. I tend to give my power over to a man so easily. My ex worries more about pleasing me now because I have my boyfriend in my life.

My kids--I don't demand that they remember me for anything because of my own family issues.

Anyway--I started standing up for myself about 6 or 7 years ago. My son says he has never seen me this strong. I will do "so much" and then I put my foot down. My older sister no longer talks to me because I won't play by her rules any longer.

What I do is I take care of MYSELF. I have done that for years where my birthday is concerned. I make sure I make plans--and if someone wants to go along, more power to them. If not--I go alone. I always get myself something for birthdays, Christmas, etc., and if someone gives me something--GREAT. If they don't, so be it.

The hardest thing I've had to learn though is not to rescue my son all the time--so my 6-1/2 weeks in Colorado (and many other weeks this past summer before the boyfriend started commuting to California)--keeps me from being here to enable my son . . . I definitely tend to clean up after him.

But I am now in Utah--my boyfriend has the week off next week--and he is home with his dog. I'm taking a break.