This question is about relationships, specifically mine with my ex-boyfriend, but the title of my post is something I've thought a lot about in terms of my recovery from Mormonism. I was so closed minded as a Mormon and after I left the church in my mid-twenties, my life became the roaring twenties. For me, it was any damn thing goes for quite a few years! I realized that certain things, like taking up drugs (like ecstasy and heroin) were not going to be good for me although I had exmo friends experimenting with it, but other things I changed my opinion on completely like gay marriage (pro).

I am now in my early 30's and had been dating a guy for awhile. I was hoping it would be long term and that we'd get married, have 2.5 kids, yadda yadda, but I broke it off a few weeks ago because I discovered porn on his computer. I'm not talking about playboy porn as I own a few porn movies that I used to watch with a former flame but gay porn as well as an old subcription to a gay/bisexual website and history showing he had browsed craigslist's section of men seeking men. When I asked him about this, he calmly told me he had been curious after he broke up with his last girlfriend and just felt curious and horny and that he'd never been involved with a guy and didn't want to. I wanted to believe him but found that I just felt too insecure-- whenever a guy would call, I would wonder if it was his secret lover, I started looking for signs that he was gay, and in the end, I had to end it. I am hurting a lot right now and sometimes question if I did the right thing. For me, my biggest fear is living a lie with someone. I left the Mormon church and risked relationships with family and friends because I didn't want to live a lie. I am a brave person, and I consider myself open minded, but the fear of being with someone else who isn't being honest caused me to end it. I know pain after a break up is normal but I'm wondering if I did just jump to hasty conclusions, like back during my Mormon days, and ended it in ignorance. Any experience or feedback here? Thanks!

2.5 kids? How did you....

but the evidence presents itself otherwise? That to me is a warning flag.

I've dated a few bisexual men. It's not a big deal to me (but I tend to be more open-minded about sex than most people) but I would not be able to deal with that kind of denial. Either he's blatantly lying to you or he is scared and doesn't want to admit he might be bisexual instead of just bicurious. If he can't be honest with himself or you about his sexuality, it will cause problems down the line.

Sounds like you did the right thing by ending it. This has nothing to do with being open or closed minded, this is about trust. If you don't have trust, you can't have a good relationship. He proved himself untrustworthy, and so you had no good reason to trust him.

All I will say is that everybody new deserves a clean slate. When you want to be with somebody else, don't carry over the negative points you gave your ex.

You did the right thing. And I agree with freeman about don't carry over the negative in your future relationship.

You did the right thing.

By the way, I had as close to 2.5 kids as a person can.
I gave birth to two. Later down the road I married a man with one.
We had him half of the time. Hence 2.5

He is a whole person in and of himself though! He fit right in with my kids. All three of them are good friends.

Who knows if it's just a fantasy for him or if he would take it beyond that? It is very likely that he is telling you the truth that he has never been involved with a man.

I can give you my personal experience that gay porn has absolutely zero appeal. So there is definitely something going on there attraction wise.

The bottom line is probably that since it makes you feel so insecure and jealous of every guy he is in contact with, you probably made the right choice of breaking it off.

I think most of us are more prone to staying in relationships that we should leave than leaving relationships that we should have stayed in.

I'm a flaming heterosexual. I have zero gay porn on my computer. I never have surfed gay hookup sites. We still live in a world where being gay is considered an "abomination" by a lot of people in high places. Therefore a lot of gay people will not admit, even to themselves, that they are gay. If someone is collecting gay porn on their computer and surfing gay hookup sites they are gay (or, at least bi). Whether they admit that to themselves or to you, they are gay.

If you want to have a relationship with a gay (or bi) person then that is the question you have to ask yourself. If you don't want to then you have no need to justify anything to anyone.

Do NOT put up with something about YOUR life that you do NOT want just to be "open minded." Live the life YOU want and let others do the same. Doing that is "being open minded."

he's in denial. I can't remember exactly how "esteban" put it to me once--(esteban is gay for anyone new to the board). No straight man would be doing what your boyfriend is doing. He may be bisexual.

Thing is--I heard a lot of things in the years since I found out my boyfriend/ex-husband was gay--some 29 or so years now--and this would be a HUGE RED FLAG for me.

I shared my husband with hundreds of other men. I don't plan on sharing again. Even though sex was actually good with my ex--I didn't know that there is a huge difference between being with someone gay and someone straight. You can't really put your finger on it. It was then I knew exactly why gays NEED to be together.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 04:54PM by cl2.

Have looked a gay porn. Tried oral both giving and receiving. Not my thing, but would do it again in a group setting. Not bi. Not gay. Just willing. Just a different point of view. Married. Bunch of kids. Very happy. Texting while driving.

Impaired judgment.

This thread really hit home for me. I don't post often but couldn't pass this up. I am a married man with 3 children who is bisexual and I can tell you that under the best of circumstances a mixed orientation relationship is going to have these kind of moments where you have to wonder if you can continue the whole thing. From what you wrote I think that you did the right thing. If your boyfriend was unable to admit his interest in men after you gave him room to do so then it is a red flag. A man who is unwilling to admit his attractions to other men is more prone, IMHO, to take up risky behaviors such as random hookups on Craigslist. You need to make your health a number one priority.

However, that being said, and in regard to the subject line. If you are having second thoughts about how open minded you were in this situation then I think it is worth examining. Do you feel that you really did give your guy room to come clean? Sometimes even well-meaning guys will not admit to something if they think honesty is going to throw them from the frying pan into the fire. For example, my wife knew about my orientation before we married but the first time she found gay porn on me she flipped and I stupidly denied it. It only took me a few minutes though to recognize my denial made it worse so I quickly came clean. Coming clean lead to weeks (not days) of soul searching for both of us and there were times when my wife said she didn't know if she could do it anymore. But we worked through it. I helped her understand that being bisexual in no way compromised my willingness to remain faithful and did not affect the amount of love and attraction I feel for her. She helped me to understand what her insecurities were and why they mattered. We both came to understand each other much better through the process and have a happy, thriving marriage and family now.

I guess the only reason I mention all this is because only you can look back on the experience and recognize if you gave your boyfriend an honest, openminded chance to come clean. If he felt comfortable to lay it out on the table for you do you think he would have? If he were to admit to being bisexual (or gay) could you still live in that marriage? Overall, if the relationship was mostly good, and he was completely honest with you, should you throw it all away? I think these questions are all worth asking though I am sure you have already.

Overall, I just want to remind you that the pain you're feeling is likely felt by your ex too. And please remember that some people don't realize their sexual identity until later in life and that is a painful, confusing, and terrifying state of existence. Your ex may have said what he said simply because he doesn't know what he is. While I think you were right to break of the relationship in light of the circumstances you outlined, I think it would be good for you to maintain a friendship (if you can) because only time will tell if this can all work out and worse case scenario you can leave the relationship without doubts or second thoughts. Best case scenario you may find your soulmate with the added bonus that he can appreciate your celebrity crush as much as you do! ;)

Best of luck to you in this situation! I just hope you don't throw away something that you may regret later in life. If you feel like you have the capacity to be open minded I can't think of anywhere else that it could be better applied than in your personal life and love. That being said. Your health and sanity should be a number one priority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 05:43PM by foreverhuman.

It's not that he is attracted to the same sex that is a red flag -- it's the denial. And the denial means that it isn't healthy (physically healthy) to remain intimate with him. If he isn't going to be honest with you then you have no way of protecting yourself from STDs. I don't care if a man cheats on you with a man or with a woman -- it's risky for the faithful partner. (My ex gave me an STD before I ever knew about his cheating.)

It's okay to acknowledge when your own comfort level has been exceeded.

You have to go with your gut feeling. You must. There is no other way. I don't think you made the wrong decision. I would not want to share my husband with any other - male or female. YOU had reasons to be suspect. Just chalk it up to experience. You will find a true partner who is not into anything but YOU. You always want to be comfortable with your partner and this obviously made that impossible.

Thank you. I really appreciate your thoughtful replies. Deep down I know ending it was the right thing. I just feel unsettled at times though wondering if I was just having a knee-jerk recovering Mormon moment. I miss him so much, and perhaps my feelings of missing him might be causing me to rethink ending it. At this point he doesn't want to be friends, but I am letting the invitation stand. I am not angry at him for any of this. I care about him very much. But again, I can't be an accomplice in living a double life and I think it's wrong for someone who isn't honest about who they are to bring someone else in on the charade. I am a little naive though in thinking that only men who grow up in extremely religious families would feel the need to lie about their sexual orientation.

When I ended my last relationship, the first six months were tough. I ended up talking to him every now and then because at that point, he was my closest friend. I still very much believe that I made the right decision, though. We were not the best match for each other (and I later found out that he did end up cheating on me before I formally ended it.)

Also, thank you Foreverhuman for your view on things. I am very curious as to how bisexual couples make it work. I can imagine it's a challenge. And CL2, thank you for your comments. My ex-boyfriend and I had a good sexual relationship and we had sex quite often (both of us equally initiating). I didn't feel anything was lacking there. Oddly though in the very beginning of our relationship, when we became sexually active, he was impotent a few times in the beginning, but never again after that...hmmm...who knows...but thanks for the honest feedback.

coffeebean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Oddly though in the very beginning
> of our relationship, when we became sexually
> active, he was impotent a few times in the
> beginning, but never again after that...hmmm...who
> knows...but thanks for the honest feedback.


Anxiety likely. The belief by guys themselves or partners they should perform first time every time is rough on us. Penises are pretty honest. You must have made him relaxed and comfortable in the meantime :-)

and you have to do it your own way--we all do. That is the first thing I tell women who contact me who find out their husbands are gay.

My ex and I are best of friends--and very connected emotionally. But he is very gay and he has never deviated from that.

No marriage is easy. I would have "stayed" married to him (I am married to him, but I need insurance)--forever, I had already told him he could cheat, have boyfriends, anything. I wanted him to co-parent, but he couldn't even do that. He actually always thought I'd be keeping the home fires burning and then my old boyfriend came back into the picture.

Somehow we've made the best out of a tough situation.

One thing that I think the morg teaches I agree with:

having multiple partners is a Minefield;
it's best to have your boundaries decided beforehand, less Wear & Tear on your emotions, and often on your sexual health as well.

just sayin'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 11:57PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Shoot, I saw your headline and thought this post was going to go in another direction.

You need to decide what kind of relationship you want with this person, and what kind of relationship he wants with you. I guess it is possible for a truly bisexual person to settle down with one person. When I was married, I wanted to sleep with lots of women, could have slept with a few, but restrained myself because of my respect for my wife. My guess a bisexual could do the same if they wanted to. However, if he were not truly bisexual, but rather a homosexual forcing himself into straight relationships, then he would probably be very miserable, which would translate into misery for yourself.

It's just what feels comfortable to you. If you aren't comfortable with Bi, that's okay.

Lying when being confronted may be a reflex. Your guy had time to come clean later and didn't.

Men have a certain emotional detachment about sex, a compartmentalization, that a loving woman can understand if her partner is patient, tender and loving. Plenty of women live with porn-loving men and they shrug it off. Others want to commit suicide...and there's everything in between, so that tells you something right there.

Bottom line is the lying. Denying the obvious insults your intelligence. He could have said he's confused about why he wants to look at gay porn. He could have asked you to give him space/time. Virtually anything would have been better than a flat denial of what you perfectly well know is true.

You made the right decision - not because he's gay/bi, but because he can't be trusted and you don't want to be spending your life second-guessing.

Best

Anagrammy

I just reread coffeebean's original post for the third or fourth time, and perhaps I missed it, but she did not say her former boyfriend *lied*. She said she continued to feel insecure and not trust what he said. Why do you assume he lied?

People often do not disclose aspects of their sexuality until later in a relationship when they develop greater trust with their partner. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes sexuality changes and that is or isn't accepted in the relationship.

If the boyfriend felt coffeebearn was uncomfortable with his sexuality and with his disclosures, he may not have disclosed further if there were more to disclose. I agree coffeebean is well within her rights and should honor her needs for a sexual relationship that is healthy for her. That does not, however, make her former boyfriend a liar or at fault.

It also hasn't been asked how coffeebean discovered porn on his computer and how she happened to check his history. Is this accepted behavior in relationships these days? Does anyone besides me think significant others should have permission before checking a partner's history? If nothing else that may have forced a disclosure before the boyfriend was ready, assuming he was going to disclose.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2012 02:46AM by robertb.

If he is not cheating on you then why does it matter who else he MIGHT be attracted to man or woman?

In response to some more of the posts that I have read, I wanted to clarify a few things.
I agree with Robert that my ex-boyfriend did not out and out lie about his sexuality. What happened was this: I was staying at his house one weekend, watching his dog, while he was out of town. He said I could use his computer. I logged on and went to craigslist to look at apartments because I was moving at the time (I wasn't searching for anything at this point) but when I got to the Craigslist page, I saw that the only section that had been clicked on was Men Seeking Men. I clicked on it, all the while my stomach in a huge knot, and saw by the postings that were high lighted that he had clicked on quite a few, especially ones that said things like, "Meet me tonight" or "I'm horny, come to my hotel room." I thought I was going to pass out. But, I waited until he came home from his trip and calmly asked him, without being confrontational or angry, just really confused, about what he was doing on men seeking men. This is when he wasn't completely truthful and told me that he and his friends liked to joke around and find funny CL posts and that there were quite a few funny ones in that section. I accepted his story without a second thought and we promptly went upstairs and had sex. A few months later though, he let me borrow an old laptop of his, and again, I wasn't searching old history but started to type in the name of a website when the name of a webiste that sounded pretty risque came up. I laughed to myself thinking that it was probably a porn website. I was curious and I went to it and saw that it was a gay porn site with a link to a gay/bi dating website. I clicked on that website and saw that a username and password came up. I started shaking and my immediate reaction was to leave, but I wanted to speak with him. I needed to know what that was about. This is the part when he told me it was something he had looked at quite awhile ago, before we started dating, and that he had been horny and curious. Again, I wanted to believe him, and perhaps I wasn't wrong for believing him, maybe he was just curious, but over time, I started to feel unsettled and suspicious. He would get phone calls from #'s that were unavailable and he wouldn't pick them up when I was around and said things like, "it's probably a telephone solicitor." And again, he could have been perfectly honest with all of this, but I realized I was starting to feel like a wreck. I have a past relationship where I was involved with someone who was bisexual- he told me exactly 5 days before our temple marriage- and I am still carrying a lot of fear that some of the things that went on in our marriage could go on again. I just don't know how much I am projecting from my ex-husband to my ex-boyfriend. I am in my early 30's and my ex-boyfriend is in his late 30's. I miss him terribly. I love him. I just don't know if I can trust what he's saying that there are no hidden skeletons because to me, the worst thing in a committed relationship is that: hidden skeletons, double lives. So, I ended it but am feeling so sad and wondering if I didn't end it too hastily without asking the right questions. Not really even sure what the right questions are. I even agree with the bingoe4 that if he does have some attraction to men, it is something I might be able to deal with, but I can't deal with him hiding it, and I don't ever want to feel like I'm part of his cover up for his friends and family. I just don't know how much I can trust what he's told me. And, I also agree with you again, Robert, that snooping is not the way to build a healthy relationship and is not fair. The things I found happened to be right in front of my nose. I posted this on here because I wanted to make sure I was getting a balanced perspective and being fair to my ex-boyfriend and not making hasty judgments. I am still a little confused. I love him so much. I love his company. I loved our sex life (but apparently even if your partner is gay you can still have really good straight sex? I was pretty naive to that...)...

You really need to quit second guessing yourself on this.

With the extra clarification it is even more clear that this relationship wasn't going to work.

Being hurt in a previous relationship over this issue means that even if it never became a huge issue it would be a huge issue.

You found multiple points of data without even snooping or looking for it. I suspect you would find a whole lot more if you tried. You are mature not to have.

His explanations are pretty clearly bogus. He's downplaying what is really happening. Browsers typically auto clear their history after a couple of months - that site wouldn't have come up if he hadn't been on it for years.

I am just so confused as to why someone would continue to lie about his sexuality into his late 30's. He's never been married and has no kids, so why not just be gay if he's gay? I have not found anyone who makes me laugh like he does or with whom I can talk for hours and hours about everything and I thought I would have children with this man. It's so painful. For any of you women who have dated gay men, did they go through that period of trying to reassure you they weren't gay and denial? I know that seems pretty obvious but even this morning I got an email from him that seems so convincing. He says he is certain about his feelings and attraction to me and that there are no hidden land mines in our relationship...God, so confusing...

Gender orientation is not either/or; rather it is on a continuum from entirely heterosexual to entirely homosexual with stops in between. Furthermore, one's place on the scale can fluctuate over one's life. To complicate things even further, a man can have sex with another man for the pleasure of the experience without the other man being a love interest. We did not learn about these kinds of complexities as Mormons, of course! I'm going to venture that a good deal of your pain comes from trying to fit a complex situation into too simple a model.

P.S. If you are far enough into the relationshop where you both are considering a long-term commitment, you could just ask him if he is willing and able to make it exclusive with you.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2012 01:00PM by robertb.