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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: July 21, 2014 06:41PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Mack_Smith

Lucy's efforts to find the true religion did not slacken in Palmyra. She went from sect to sect; and sometime after 1824, she and three of her children, Hyrum, Samuel, and Sophronia, joined Western Presbyterian Church, the only church with a meetinghouse in Palmyra. Although Lucy longed for her family to be united in their religious faith, she could not persuade her husband to join them. Thus, when young Joseph had his vision, followed by the coming forth of the Book of Mormon attended by other heavenly messengers, it was the means of making Lucy's dream of a family united in religious harmony come true.

Throughout the turmoil of the revivals, Lucy had revealed her anxiety and her determination that her family would "get religion," so she shares her joy in the eventual unity of faith young Joseph brings to the Smith family with his vision of a "restoration." Lucy tells the story very movingly. Three years after the First Vision of young Joseph, she observes, "I presume our family presented an aspect as singular as any ever lived upon the face of the earth—all seated in a circle, father, mother, sons and daughters, and giving the most profound attention to a boy, eighteen years of age, who had never read the Bible through in his life" (chap. 19). She relates how Alvin, on his deathbed, counseled Joseph to "be faithful in receiving instruction and in keeping every commandment" (chap. 20).

While Lucy still continued attending meetings at the local Presbyterian church, young Joseph refused to attend; and when he finally obtained the promised gold plates which told of the history of the early inhabitants of the American continent, Lucy stopped going to meetings herself. She said, "We were now confirmed in the opinion that God was about to bring to light something upon which we could stay our minds, or that he would give us a more perfect knowledge of the plan of salvation and the redemption of the human family. This caused us greatly to rejoice, the sweetest union and happiness pervaded our house, and tranquility reigned in our midst" (Smith, chap. 19). Much of Lucy's attention during this period was directed towards her family being the instrument in bringing salvation to the whole human family. It was clearly a Smith family enterprise. As Jan Shipps has pointed out, Lucy employs the pronouns we, ours, and us rather than simply referring to Joseph's particular role (Mormonism, 107).

There's no evidence that Joe's mother had heard the first vision story any time in the 1820's. TBM's might claim that this absence of evidence doesn't prove anything, but don't the facts prove beyond a reasonable doubt that, IF Joe had a vision, nobody knew about it?...not even his own mother?

"While Lucy still continued attending meetings at the local Presbyterian church, young Joseph refused to attend; and when he finally obtained the promised gold plates which told of the history of the early inhabitants of the American continent, Lucy stopped going to meetings herself."

Young Joseph? Lucy kept hanging out with the Presbyterians until Joe was 22+? This isn't young Joseph. This is married, treasure digging, criminal glass-looking Joseph. Did Jesus really tell Joe that all churches were an abomination, but that his mother would find good friends to hang with for the next 8 years or so at the Presbyterian abomination? Or, was he conning his own mother, and she didn't even trust him until he actually had the book that he had been talking about?

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Posted by: moose ( )
Date: July 21, 2014 07:02PM

you begin to sense her manner of speech reflected in her son, JS, throughout the BoM. In my Kindle Fire, I mark all the places in her book as "BoM speak" whenever I cross some phrasing I've found in the BoM.

There are a lot of those marks so far, and I have a long way to go yet to finish it!

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: July 22, 2014 10:50AM

Have you found any really damning evidence in this history? My TBM parents own it, but I don't believe it shook their testimonies one bit. I don't understand why Brigham wanted all copies burned. I know it mentions Joe's storytelling, Joe Sr's dream, and doesn't mention the first vision (except for the account Orson copied into the book after the fact), but is there anything more?

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Posted by: moose ( )
Date: July 22, 2014 12:53PM

Nothing damning specifically. Collectively, yes.

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Posted by: moose ( )
Date: July 22, 2014 12:54PM

As I mentioned above, it dawned on me that "BoM speak" was Lucy's manner of speech. THAT is not one of those obvious kinds of things and would fly over the heads of most TBM's.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: July 21, 2014 07:51PM

Joe Jr. learned a lot of his cons from his parents.

http://www.conchisle.com/magic.htm

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: July 21, 2014 08:22PM

My favorite story about her is when Joseph acquired the mummies and she charged people two bits each to see the remains. I can imagine her sitting in a chair with her hand out for quarters. What a family those Smiths were!

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: July 21, 2014 08:30PM

This is what I always think about when his parents are mentioned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOSZwEwl_1Q

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: July 21, 2014 10:12PM


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Posted by: kimball ( )
Date: July 22, 2014 11:09AM

The timeline is all screwed up. How could she join the Presbyterian church in 1824, and then stop attending in 1823? Where's the evidence that she stopped attending in 1827? The quote used to defend this date was attributed by Lucy in her manuscript to the time period shortly before Alvin's death in 1823.

All the facts I've been able to find on the subject are here:

http://www.fullerconsideration.com/sources.php?cat=PBOM-REX
http://www.fullerconsideration.com/sources.php?cat=PBOM-DOM
http://www.fullerconsideration.com/sources.php?cat=PBOM-TEO

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