"I have had experiences so sacred that I cannot give them utterance."

Ladies and gentlemen, I actually said these words to an investigator during my mission. This was in '93. I thought it made me sound important like an apostle. And the thing is, I really believed myself. I was so full of sh*t. I thought I sounded so impressive and that the investigator would be assuming that I had seen God. Probably this is how the apostles think when they say their experiences are too sacred to discuss.

Now I feel like a real dope that I was ever like that.

I'm ashamed to say I said the same thing on my mission to non-believing, inactive member. Deep down I knew my "sacred experience" was fluff and nothing impressive but when I couched in a "too sacred to talk about" terms it sounded more impressive.

Seriously, I would be surprised if young people on missions who have been bullied and indoctrinated to be there their entire lives did not voice that they had experiences too sacred to talk about. Young people on missions are only out there because they are told that this is the next best thing to landing in the CK, that they are THE chosen generation, and a mission will be THE best two years of their lives.

Well, if the mission is falling short when your are out in the field, it would be only natural to add some embellishments to get those numbers that you are drilled and drilled again and again to produce.

Hell, I believe I would have made up a lot of things, and a lot of numbers to get the leaders of my back!

The "I have had experiences too sacred to talk about" line is a bunch of bullsh!t. According to mormonism, Joseph Smith went to the sacred grove to pray and ended up talking to God and Jesus in the flesh. And he told everyone about it. What the hell could be more sacred than talking to God and Jesus in person???

I wish some mormonm would use this sad line on me. I'd like to see if I could get them to actually say they had an experience even more sacred than Joseph Smith's first vision.

nice bezoar, i think i'll use that, thanks

Some TBM's might not be affected by that line. Someone posted an old Improvement Era article about the different first vision accounts a while back. The article mentions that nobody could see God in the flesh and live, and that Joe woke up on his back in the grove. It doesn't flat out say it, but it suggests that maybe it was just a dream. I was never told that it was anything less than an actual, physical visitation, but I have a TBM SIL that knows about all the different accounts and believes that the story was greatly exaggerated...but that he DID actually have a vision...in his head...

HAHA OMG, I just said almost the exact same thing in a different thread. Nice!

Donny... "its not secret.. its just so sacred"

start at 10:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JobQRytGvp8

Donny;..."the term Mormon is just not weird anymore!!"........alrighty then.

I always figured the real reason for the statement was best translated: "If I told you, you would conclude I am a nut case." Another translation is: "I know you already think I'm crazy, but if I told you the experience it would remove all doubt."

Wish I had a "like" button!

An Apostle is supposed to be a witness. I always used to think, of what use is a witness who refuses to talk about what he's witnessed?

I have no idea why that has never occurred me before. You're absolutely right, they don't witness to anything.

An apostle is also supposed to be a prophet, seer and revelator. All of the 15 KNOW that they don't don't prophesy, see anything, or receive revelation. They serve no purpose.

Let's be fair here. The 15 are very busy sitting on the boards of directors.

Those businesses aren't going to run themselves.

So they don't serve "no purpose." They just serve Mammon.

Laffery thought he was receiving revelation.

Every member who gets a "good feeling" thinks they're getting a witness of something.

With the right combination of gullibility (supernatural beliefs), narcissism (think God has something to say to YOU) plus some "school of the prophets" style "channeling" of the spirit, perhaps the GA's really do think they are being led by Christ.

It explains a lot of crazy talk.

If you listen to Christine Jeppsen Clark's Mormon Stories podcast, she talks about how BKP instructed her GA father in the art being able to differentiate between your own thoughts and when Christ is revealing his truths to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2014 03:28PM by crom.

Translation: I had an experience that sounds very ordinary when I put it in words.

The missionaries led me to believe that God actually visited the temples, that apostles had seen them and HE talked to them, that if I was faithful enough I could see him too or at the very least receive divine inspiration. Boy was I naive. but if was the phrases and words and the sacredness of what they didn't say that got my curiosity.

Until the last days I attended the temple I tried to be so reverent, so quiet, so in tune with the spirit but the promises of those mishies never came through. They knew they were misleading me and I guess I suspected they may have but their attitude and their suggestion that if I passed the opportunity I would not get a second chance was enough to get batpised and in for 20+ years. silly missionaries, stupid cult, fool me.

Thank you for sharing, all this just helps me understand more and more how I fell for and stayed in for so long.

D

Yes. That's exactly what a lot of people would say, no matter the religion.

My position is that that it's perfectly OK, and expected, actually, in a very long life, (like myself) to have experiences of any kind, sacred or otherwise, that are personal and not talked about, ever. I have them. I won't ever talk about them.

I will eventually probably forget anyhow! :-)
One of my favorite sayings is: In 20 years who will remember...!?

I have lived my life to this point understanding that all of it was filled with experiences that taught me something important, which included a huge variety of lessons for living.

I am not ashamed of my life, not when I was LDS or before or after. I do not "do regrets" either. That was the past, it is over, gone, done. I do not live there anymore!

I learned something from those experiences and am moving forward, not going back. No rehashing my choices either. No putting myself down for anything. Nothing is a waste either.

We all get the same thing: we live, we die, we do stuff in between. There are no wouldas, shouldas, couldas, what if's.

I stayed in the LDS Church until it became clear that I needed to change my mind and make a different decision. I grew up with the adage from the women in my family etc. "It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind."

Fortunately, I had a husband (of over 36 yrs at the time) that understood, on his level, (usually had the reasons mixed up, but that was OK).

He asked: "What do you need from me."
I replied: "Just live the 11th Article of Faith"
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

And he did.

Then we went forward. Was that a sacred experience? You bet it was. But in this case, I am willing to share it if it is of benefit or helps someone else.
This resulted in our agreement: "agree to disagree".

No regrets, no shame, no chastising, no self incrimination, etc.
We went forward.

Did we both have sacred experiences we did not share with the other person or others? You bet we did!

+

I Have Had Experiences Too PAINFUL To Talk About.

+

Too sacred to talk about is code for "you will think I am batsh1t crazy if I tell you what I think happened" when coming from your general members. When coming from the upper leadership its a dodge to get out of admitting that they really haven't spoken to jeebus.

I went to Vegas a few months ago for a friends bachelor party. When I got home and my wife asked me what I did. I told her that my experiences were too sacred to talk to her about. That didn't really fly very well so in the end I just told her that I was too drunk to remember. That went over marginally better...

Why is it that sacred things can't be talked about? Ironically, Jesus taught that the truth does not fear exposure as lies do. The word "sacred" is too often used as an excuse to make people omit their falsity, omit any condemning truth, cause conformity, delay thinking, and I dare say even as an excuse to uphold secret oaths to secret societies. Contrarily, truth never fears full expression. It is dishonesty which is silenced by fear. Only a sacred lie fears open discussion and dissection because it is difficult to keep up the facade.

I think what they're really saying is, “my secret oath of fraud is too sacred to talk about.”

One word - Charades.

Also, in my decades in the church, I never bore my testimony. I don't know how I did it. I had to twist my mind around my tongue many times. I testified to things I really believed. I told "stories," but labled them stories. I taught about virtue and honesty and love.

Though I spent many years in craziness, I have to be proud of the fact that I was ultimately pretty true to myself.

I told a dude that he would regret the horrible things he said about Joe Smith and would be brought to repentance for it in the next world...
I was such an asshole...

Ah hahahahahaha! Oh Yelp, you didn't!! Did you really use that phrase? Eh, we all have our own cringe-worthy stories of public piety. I once left a singles ward party for the premier of season three of The Office. I once turned down coffee cake. Coffee cake! I sent my love interest (who moved away for work) a paperback BOM (with my testimony written in it, of course) and a current Ensign. Sigh. I'm ashamed of my old self. Bwa ha, thanks for the laugh! I needed it today!

Funny how the "first vision" should have entered the parameters of "2 Sacred 2 Talk"

It seems as though LDS Inc like to bring up the "first vision" a lot, and has built quite a business from it.

I would think the "2 Sacred to 2 Talk" excuse would be quite handy during any bishop interviews, as well as tithing settlement. It might also be a handy little chestnut to drop in a church court for sexual or apostasy charges.