I was thinking about this, and think about how difficult this can be for your average TBM church goer not wanting to strain family relationships and whatever. Now imagine you're livelihood is dedicated to this fraud. The very means by which you put a roof over your families head and food on their table now seems not nearly as noble and honorable. You hate the thought of continuing to poison the minds of the youth with this bogus and harmful bullshit. However, this is all you've ever known, and you have no idea what else to do make a living. What a shitty situation! I wonder how many people out there are in this exact situation right now.

Grant Palmer is one, and the McLays are another. You can listen to their interviews on www.mormonstories.org.

I was a seminary teacher long ago, but where I come from there is no salary for that position or Institute teachers. There is a church education system office with salaried employees tough.

I know his first name is Ken (I believe). I'm sure someone else can give us his full name, maybe even he will.

Ken Clark former CES educator for 27 years.

I think there's more about him on mormonThink.

Here's his story:
http://www.exmormonscholarstestify.org/ken-clark.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 12:39PM by madalice.

Ken's presentation on You Tube starts here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKt7ozdKeBk

I know of two who are now retired. They essentially did what Palmer did - gritted their teeth until they could escape gracefully. Sort of what a lot of missionaries did, except on a longer timeframe!

I don't believe Palmer got to leave gracefully.

Long after his book was such a success, he was summoned for a Court of Love. He begged and pleaded not to be ex'd because he wanted to still have standing so he could participate in blessings and his grandchildren's baptisms, weddings, etc.

He even offered to stop making contributions to scholarly journals, and said he was willing to never speak another exMormon word. They ex'd him anyway, so he said what the hell and continued to make the academic contributions.

I heard this from Palmer's own lips at the Exmormon Conference a few years back. Perhaps some of you were there.


Kathleen Waters

I think they just dissed him and he later resigned.

I think Palmer did retire from his CES job. That is what I was referring to. My friends still have their church membership as far as I know, but they didn't write a book and make LDS Inc look bad. They are inactive.

My brother was doing his student teaching for CES. He wanted to be a seminary teacher and would have been a good one. Fortunately for him, though, he didn't get hired. He is leaving.

Yes I left CES and the church in 2002. I was currently the Director of the Pullman WA Institute of Religion. I was so sick of the lying sacks of dog meat, and sick of getting in trouble for being honest with students about church history. I had no job and a resume with 27 years of working for a cult on it. And that is how WSU and U of I viewed it.

I quit anyway thanks to the best damned woman in the universe, who begged me to.

I learned a new skill (research and sponsored programs) and worked at a couple of institutions of higher education until retiring about a year ago. My CES pension is small due to my early resignation. But I am not complaining. I am so happy I gave up the pathetic cult. If you think regular Mormons are weird, you have not seen devotion on steroids as personified by many CES faculty.

That brings back memories. I was there over 7 years and graduated from WSU in 1987, with Mumford as director, and perhaps Stinebaugh coming in or helping.

Met my wife there in the Institute. She had converted a year prior. We both quit the church around 1998.

My daughters recently graduated from WSU (never went to church). Often drive by the Institute and wonder how its doing.

Exmormon 59. The institute in Pullman is not as full of activity as it used to be. My neighbor who is now the director in Pullman says enrollment is way down as it is at the Moscow, ID institute (where Kip Jenkins and I were, when Mumford and later Stinebaugh were at Pullman.

Nice to hear from folks who know the area.

Ken

I suspected such. I have joked with one daughter who hasn't had good luck with her boyfriends, that she ought to go find a guy at the Insitute and then drag him out of the church.

Of course she's not interested, but sounds like the selection may be limited anyway.

BTW, if you're in Pullman, both my daughters are working in the jewelry store on main street, until one daughter heads to grad school in Colorado in a few weeks. Stop in and chat with them.

Was just thinking I've never talked to a live exmo. I live up by Spokane, but come down occasionally to visit in Pullman. If you're interested in chatting, perhaps give my daughter your number.
Thanks.

Congratulations. I'm glad things worked out well for you. (I may have seen a video of you, and if that was you I'm not surprised at your success).

Maybe even worse than CES are the Family Counselors that depend on referrals from Bishops for their clients. Giving honest and truthful information to their clients can cost them their pay checks. Then the bishops often want/demand to know what the client has said. And to top it off, the healing process has to be repent, study the books of myths and lies, pay tithing and go to lds meetings which often is the core source of people's problems to start with.

The cult has too much power over those who jobs depends on TSCC favors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 07:47PM by themaster.

Not the same as full time--I was early morning. But, still, it was supposed to be "the person in the ward with the greatest testimony." When I heard that at CES conference, that's when I knew I had to quit.

That was the same conference where I heard the term---"RfM"

Enlightening!

(BTW, I can say in all honesty, that I never taught anything I didn't believe in seminary. Or any other class. It took a lot of dodging and weaving and omiting, but I did it.) I was supposed to bear my testimony at the end of every lesson. But I never did.

I made sure the students knew I was telling the story of the Book of Mormon, for instance. When we talked about the great flood, I said, "Well, some people believe that; other people believe xxxx." I was a good teacher. I brought in outside materials and we discussed morality and various viewpoints.

I know, I know...I was a figurehead for the whole deal. That's why I couldn't do it any more.

An old friend, no names, was an CES seminary teacher. He was also in the 1990 version of the temple film. When he discovered the fraud and left the church, they (TSCC) digitally removed his face from the temple movie.

My wife, 3 years teacher in mornings
A few months ago. Although she had just been called as YWP

A blaze of glory too