I'm considering backing off my relationships with my sisters. After the being labeled a "lost soul" and then receiving voice mails with readings from Isaiah's lost sheep writings (among other things), I think I've had it up the ying yang with them.

I know some of you have cut contact and have seen the benefits. I love them but I think they are threatened by me leaving the church. I haven't said more than a couple of sentences to them about why I left--they have asked me to never say anything negative about the church or even go so far as to say I don't believe Pres. Monsen is a prophet.

I am now a spectator in the relationship where I'm never asked what I've been reading, never asked for an opinion--my stock has bottomed out. It's been nearly a year since they learned I wasn't attending and then early this year they learned I had resigned. Do you think there is hope they will treat me better and with respect? Is it silly to expect that they will not view me as an apostate or someone with only a differing view of life?

Do you get to request that they don't talk about their religion around you? Would they comply?

I cut contact, but not over church. I cut it because those people are crazy making, and the just wear me out. I had to put my sanity first.

I haven't made that request of them--maybe I should have. They probably would be insulted if I did. Saw them both last month and realized more the extent the relationships have changed. They live in neighboring states so we don't see each other frequently. I can manage talking to them and passing over their inappropriate comments, changing the subject, that kind of thing. It's just the drama of the telephone calls and emails and I don't want to hear about them gossiping about me trying to determine when I "lost" my testimony. The effects are debilitating and depressing.

All relationships should have give and take, regardless of the subject matter. These clearly don't. That's unhealthy in itself. Do they value you as a person and your relationship with them, or simply want you to bolster their thoughts, opinions, and feelings? Because that's ridiculous. I feel extremely stifled in any relationship where I can't be my authentic self, so usually avoid any where it can't...

Thanks for your perspective. Very helpful.

We have cut contact with a lot of family members. We got tired of the same sort of behavior. They can't separate their church topics from normal topics. It is all intertwined for them and it would turn into them shaming/judging us. And we weren't having it.

So for the last few years we have had very limited contact. And when and if we do talk, they know that we don't tolerate that kind of behavior towards us. We are respectful of their life and decisions and we expect the same in return.

But it has been nice. For a few reasons. My husband and I always had our families interfering in our relationship and crossing boundaries. And we weren't fighting but things were tough. It was tough to be a young couple with kids and never be able to feel as if you can make your own decisions. So when we left and finally were able to express ourselves and our opinions it pushed us closer together.

Holidays are SOOOOOO much better without these types ruining every single one of them. Make your own new traditions doing things that you and yours love to do. I promise, you won't miss them.

I would try setting limits with them first. I would say something like, "If you want to talk about your calling, or a talk that moved you, or a church supper, or a Relief Society activity, feel free. You are talking about yourself and your activities and that is fine. However no more talk of lost sheep and no more trying to reel me back in, because that isn't going to happen. Respect me and I'll respect you. How I choose to spend my Sundays shouldn't be that huge a deal to you."

The hardest part is letting go of what they think about you. Knowing that they just think you're a sinful apostate, in the wrong, is super hurtful, because it lacks any real understanding of you or what you've gone through. But trying to explain yourself is pointless......and it's definitely not going to make them "feel the spirit". It sucks, I'm in a very similar situation with my sisters.

"letting go of what they think of you" -- that is most difficult. Oddly, that was what kept me attending longer than I should have--I didn't want to be viewed as an "inactive" member.

+1

I was having the same thing happening to me. I ended up typing up a 9 page paper summarizing why I decided to no longer be affiliated with the church. Kind of an extremely mini version of the CES Letter.

I emailed it out to everyone in my family that had had such a problem with my decision to leave. I put in the letter that I would be glad to discuss my position on the church with them if they would read what I put together and wanted to discuss my specific issues.

It ended up cutting off a lot of the comments I was getting. The ones who read it realized I had legitimate issues, and didn't just leave out of weakness and the ones too afraid that reading it would damage their testimony don't bring me leaving up because I just tell them that if they didn't even care enough to take the time to find out why I left they have no business telling me to come back.

It's easier to put it all out in the open so that everyone at least understands.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2014 03:43PM by brucermalarky.

I think the relationships might never be as close. I guess you'll have to decide how much time you want to spend being ignored and discounted when you're with them. If there isn't much benefit and enjoyment when you're together, it makes sense to see them less, but it's sad that they're hanging back as if you're not the same person anymore.

In my opinion, I think many TBMs become colder and more distant in hopes the exmo will apologize and return to church to regain favor.

Thanks, Cheryl. I may have reached my limit this weekend with the voice mails. BTW, it was so nice to meet you and Jerry last week.

I've always enjoyed your posts and I'm happy that I was right about what a nice sensible person you are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2014 04:59PM by Cheryl.

My mother was big on that when I was a little kid. Now, as a parent and a grandparent, I can't understand how she buffaloed my father an grandmother into it too, but she was a very domineering person, so. . .

Do you have any idea what it's like, not to have anybody (apparently) see or hear you? I started voluntarily breaking things - loudly and messily - just to make them snap out of it. Of course, I got punished for that,but at least I had proof that they COULD see and hear me.

That one was high on my "things I won't do as a parent" list. And I never did, with my own kids.

I would force them to make the choice. "You can either respect my choices, or lose me as a sister. You've asked me not to say anything negative about the Church and yet you think it's just fine to bombard me with church stuff. I just want to be your sister, not your lost sheep. Either agree to disagree or we'll just have to stop communicating. If you mention the Church, then I reserve the right to say how I feel about it too. Agreed, or not? Your call."

The saying goes, when you get older, you get to pick your family. People who treat you like that don't deserve to be family. I say divorce them and move on.

I cut off contact with my TBM mother and TBM brother almost 3 years ago.

There was a wedding this weekend, my TBM niece suggested that I wait until her (now) husband's side of the family has a get together instead of going out for the wedding since all the activities were at my mother's house.

I can live with that.

Well, we had a death in the family (Stepbrother) and now I'm a bit worried about the memorial. My stepsister really wants us all there but knows it will be dicey with the TBMs.

I'm already trying to workshop scenarios and how this could "work" - -- I have time to figure it out. There's an investigation into his death and we don't know when the body will be released.

Any thoughts? Would it be too weird for me to offer to shake hands and leave it there? I'm expecting them to act like I don't exisit and kick up a fuss....

It's just the 2 of them that are "dead to me" (and vice versa).... awkward...

Wish I had some great advice for you. No matter how I envision future contact with a toxic relative, it never is the same when confronted with reality. The best I can offer: just be yourself and be prepared for the worst from your Mom and brother.

The most successful tactic I have found in dealing with Mormons and boundaries is to simply mirror their same behavior back on them.

For example when my FIL started sending us articles about being "lost sheep" (and CCing the whole family), I calmly asked him if it would be acceptable for me to send him (and the family) articles about Joseph Smith having sex with a 14 year old girl. For some reason, he said that it would not be acceptable.

I asked him why he thought it was OK for him to send that kind of stuff, but not for me to do the same back. He got it and stopped the behavior. After flipping their behavior on them a couple dozen times, AND POINTING OUT that I was exactly mirroring their behavior, they started to get it.

As CA Girl often says, telling them: "This is why people don't like mormons" is an effective way of pointing out bad behavior. To be fair, mormons are in no way prepared to deal with us when we leave and reject their religion. They have had years of brainwashing and indoctrination that only tells them that we are Devil Spawn and will drag them into hell. They have no idea how to deal with us.

It is up to us to show them where their behavior is bad, and set those boundaries.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2014 04:40PM by redkoolaidmonster.

I need to add here that in my opinion the reason why they are not prepared to deal with people leaving Mormonism does not only reflect badly on Mormonism, but also reflects badly on the Mormon in question.


For me, being a Mormon is a lifestyle choice. Being an asshole or a dumbass, maybe less so, but still something that can be limited.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2014 05:50PM by gentlestrength.

It sounds like you've tried doing it their way and didn't work. Now try it your way.

Let them know exactly why you left.

Show them exactly who you are now.

If they can talk religion, so can you.

Let them be the ones to back off if they don't like the new rules.

"The effects are damaging and debilitating."

So why go on the way things are? If the results of interaction are so negative, then it seems something HAS to change.

I think it would be worth it to try to set limitations on their church talk. Tell them that you don't want them to talk down to you or about you anymore. You've been tolerant of THEIR beliefs. Even though you believe they are gravely wrong about their church, you recognize their right to worship as they choose. But you will NOT tolerate them treating YOU as unworthy or lost.

In other words, go on the offensive a bit. Rather than accepting their assumption that YOU have a problem, or accept any sort of shaming let them know that you are proud of leaving and that they are the ones with the problem.

Then they will have the choice to change their behavior, or you can cut them off (although I do think you have to retrain people a bit before they even recognize what their offensive behaviors are. Like racist or bigots, they don't even realize some of the offensive things they do).

Best of luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2014 05:25PM by imaworkinonit.

What are these relationships doing for you? Are you emotionally enriched or drained by having these women in your life?

I have 4 siblings and have cut off contact with all 4 with the exception of one who I very rarely send/receive a text to/from.

Only with two of them was it a big statement on my part. The others just kind of fizzled away. Dysfunctional parent leaders of our dysfunctional family are dead.

Sometimes I regret not having a relationship, especially with my sisters. But the reality is there was so much meanness it was no longer worth it.

If you feel bad about yourself for being with them, I say, drop them.

I think that cutting off contact is a good idea. I also think that explaining yourself is a good idea. Their rules about what you can and can not say are not reasonable and you should not follow them.

If you can't be open and honest as well as respected then I think distance is needed. If you aren't a better person because they are around then I think it is even more important you put distance between yourself and them.

If it's beating you down, cut the ties.

As much as I love and miss my family, and I do, I was stuck. I have enough to deal with without them piling on more crap for me to deal with.

Next month is my two-year anniversary of cutting ties and moving. I think about initiating contact, but the last time I tried to cut ties and then thought we could work things out, things became much worse.

Only you can decide how much you can deal with and for how long.

I can only speak for myself: These last two years haven't been the best of my life, but I've made more progress dealing with the previous 45 than ever. I'm living my own life now.

I think you are headed where I have spent the last four decades--the family's own spiritual prison. I don't recommend it. I would force the issue. I wish I had back in the day.

Mine started the same way. No one wanted to know why I left. I was not allowed by the patriarch father to say anything about the church or religion or even the republicans, and yet I stumbled on trying to maintain this lukewarm relationship with the family. I knew as you do that my opinion no longer counted for anything.

You are not free to say anything factual about the church, which we all know would be taken as a negative. However, they feel they have the right to bombard you with their "negative" scriptures. They are negative you know.

Or to put it another way, they are free to talk about their callings, quote scriptures and wax rapturous about the general authorities, and you are free to keep your mouth closed.

All those years ago I had no facts, no "anti" material, and so I never felt I had any leverage. They showed some love and so we all limped along with the relationship. They would be shocked to know how rich the other relationships in my life have been.

I wish I had forced the issue. Even Jesus, whoever he was, supposedly said he could take the hot or the cold but would spit the luke warm out.

I never really cut anyone out, I just stopped letting them in.