I have read a number of posts on here from people seeking advice on finding a job. My perspective is from a hiring manager from a mid-size, privately held firm that has 650 employees in 11 offices in four states.

I am more amazed every month at the number of people who have no idea how to effectively search for a job.

Here are some common mistakes and suggestions on how to avoid them.

1. Applying for every job that comes open. About six months ago, we were accepting applications for a part-time laborer (20 hours per week, $12.50 per hour, no benefits) and a senior structural engineer ($275,000 per year). These openings were in different offices, about 100 miles apart. Still, we had four people who applied for both jobs. None of those people were considered for either job.

Apply for jobs where you have some chance of being successful if hired. We don't compare notes with competitors, but we do discuss these things with suppliers, clients and others. We do maintain a list of people who have a history of applying for every job, and people on that list are never considered. If you are going to waste our time by applying for a job that is far beyond your qualifications, we don't want you.

2. Don't tell the company how much you need the job. We may care if you are about to lose your house, car or going into bankruptcy, but we are not going to hire you because of it. Our job is the match the best applicant with the opening. Our loyalty is to the company.

Tell us, instead, why you would be an asset to the firm. Sell yourself.

3. If you are going to use someone as a job reference, ask them first. We actually had an applicant list a former boss as a reference. I called. The person told me not only had he fired the applicant, but had to call the police to remove him from the premesis. Another put down someone who was forbidden by his company's policy from giving references at all. A third put down a co-worker. Not a manager, but someone he worked with.

Simply ask the person you are going to put down as a reference. If you can't find someone to give you a good reference, maybe it is time to examine your work ethic.

4. Be respectful of your current and any former employers. We once had an applicant who was going to get an offer (although he didn't know that). He was siting in my office while I waited for an assistant to bring me the written offer. I asked him his preferred start date. He said "immediately." I asked about his current employer. He answered "screw them."

We went to the next applicant. If you are willing to be unprofessional to your current employer, you will do it to us as well.

5. Be respectful to us if you don't get the job. Our rejection policy is as follows. Those not considered for interviews get a two-sentence email. Those interviewed, but not brought in for a second round get a form letter. Those who get to at least the second round get a phone call from a manager.

At every step, we have been cussed out when not hiring someone. That, of course, gets you on the no-hire list. If you are respectful, and if you were seriously considered, you can bet you will be at the top of the list the next time we hire, and we will suggest you to clients/suppliers if we think you might work out.

6. Have someone give you an honest review of your resume, interview technique, etc. In short, learn your weaknesses, and work to minimize those.

7. Be respectful (there is a trend here) of everyone you meet in our office. We have had applicants ask our receptionist to bring them coffee and even ask for a date. Please, thank you, etc. are a must.

8. Be punctual. This should speak for itself, but almost 10 percent of people show up at least 15 minutes late for an interview.

9. Be prepared. Bring pens, paper and any other materials you will need with you.

10. Don't be stupid. Answering a personal call ends the interview. If it is an emergency (kid headed to ER or something), we will reschedule. If it is roomie calling to make plans to party that night, you go on the list. If it rings and you answer, the interview is over. NO EXCEPTIONS.

11. Don't BS. Sometimes, we will ask a very technical question. We don't expect the applicant to know the answer. If the applicant makes something up, he/she goes on the list. If you don't know, say so. If you try to wing it, we usually know.

Very good advice.

I'd like to add a couple:

Proof read your resume, cover letter and your application!! Spelling (still) counts and can count against you if it's bad.

Don't let your mother/wife/dad/husband call to check up on your application. That reeks of "I need a babysitter"

make sure your resume and cover letter look similar. I see countless resumes that are professionally crafted with cover letters that are plain with mismatched (to the resume) fonts. This tells me that you had someone help you with your resume (good for you!!) but that you don't know Word well enough to make your cover letter look as nice.

HTH

Good point. That is one of the reasons we make applicants fill out the application in the office. That way, we know they did it, not someone else.

If you find yourselves demanding respect all the time, it's probably time to take a look at your company.

Really? The person looking for a job shouldn't be respectful of the time and effort put into an interview and their potential employer? I am surprised that jobs exist where you don't have to respect the people around you.

I like that your company sends rejection notifications after interviews. It always bothered me as a job seeker that I would never hear from a company after interviewing there. I wanted to be notified one way or another.

Respect, to us, is a two-way street. IF we are going to demand it, we have to give it.

Thank you! This advice is very insightful. Some I assumed were common sense, like not sounding needy at the interview and having polished documents, but it means a lot more coming from a manager. It also confirms my belief that people should apply for jobs they know they'd be good at, unlike advice from friends who say to apply for everything. Not every waitress would make a good receptionist, despite both being entry level jobs. No sense in wasting time on a job you have no chance at.

It seems like for interviews, no matter how much I prepare and how confident I am, there's always something that I'm missing. Interviews seem like pass or fail. You can do extremely well, but everyone else is already 3 steps ahead, so they win. The problem is identifying everything I need to know before going in. This is why getting a job feels nearly impossible to me.

I own a Childcare center and we put out an ad for new employees and had this 60 year old former funeral director who had NEVER worked with kids applying OFTEN. Like 10 times...we never interviewed him, but he kept applying causing us extra paperwork. I was tempted to contact him and tell him what his skill set was more likely to get him a job doing, but I resisted.

Learn all you can about the company before the interview. Don't apply if the products or business offends your sensibilities.

I had a real interview to a real job this spring. Not just seasonal work as 'customer service".

I did everything right and the interviewer wanted to hire me. She was the office manager and had the heartbreak of calling me to tell me they had filled the position.

I had a neighbor who worked there, that was how I knew of the job, they hired a 24 year old who had NEVER done any office work at all.

The boss, who is about 7 years younger than me, and I tend to look ten years younger than my age, thought he could teach the 24 year old who'd only done fast food how to do office procedures the way they wanted them.

In other words AGE PREJUDICE!!!

Unfortunately, my SAHM degree does not translate into the work place. The boss did not understand I'm very happy to do whatever procedures he wanted done his way in that office.

The 24 year old was not a 'hottie' to be exploited, will probably not be there in three years, but she could possibly be bullied, if that is his game. I don't know.

But it sure burns me. I need the work, and I'm just now entering the workforce and companies keep claiming they want workers! Hah!
They want youngsters because they think we old folks are the smug, entitled, job-less babyboomers I met at the Employment Center.

I'm not in that category, I spent my work history years raising a family and didn't get into being self-important as a boss. I'd like a toe in the door to real work that can use my willingness, experience and abilities.

How one can come across as willing to do the work and not a quibbler and whiner about being boss in a former work place...who knows? I'm not puffed up with self importance yet there is a 'halo' affect coming from the baby boomers who are resentful as they try to re-enter the workforce and don't want entry level jobs.

I'd love an entry level job! They're going to the children! I don't want to be on welfare,in a tiny one room flat because that's all I could afford!

Age discrimination hurts......

Thank you for your post, I'm glad to know I've been doing the right things all along. Eventually I should have something.

My husband often hires people for laborer type jobs. He's always looking for one that's smart enough to move up into the management situations.

If you look like a slob and pull up in a filthy vehicle, he probably won't hire you. Why? Because it gives the impression that you don't care about your own things and aren't tidy or organized. Both requirements in his line of work.

Timely thread - I have a man that contacted me last Saturday and asked for a fairly high paying job. He was supposed to call me today at 9:00 am to confirm our appointment tomorrow. I had already decided to offer him the job when we meet but he never did call me today to confirm.

Our clients run million dollar business and we always make appointments and we always confirm our appointments with them before we meet face to face.

Next

Well I'll take the job!

If anyone shows up late for an interview I NEVER hire them anymore.

I have learned through sad experience that anyone who shows up late for an interview,. or late for work in the first couple days will be showing up late forever. There is always a reason for it. I no longer care.

Be on time.

Very few companies bother to provide feedback to those whom they interview. VERY FEW. I work in the Wash DC area as a consultant. I interview often, as most of my work is short term for a project.

Placement agencies are terrible for bugging the he11 out of you for a resume and samples, and then.....nothing. If the client does not want to move forward, then you are just yesterday's news and the placement agency can't be bothered to tell you.

After an interview, I would say maybe 10% of the companies bother to send an email stating I was not chosen.

Years ago, I got, what I refer to as the "rejection scrap". It was a generic rejection letter, a copy of a copy of a copy...and the kicker is that it was HALF a pager, folded and badly ripped. They didn't want to waste a full piece of paper on the applicant. There was a line and my name was written by hand. How f-ing ignorant is that?

I recognize that is the norm today, and there is no excuse for it.

With very little difficulty, we set up an automate program to send rejection emails and form letters. Everyone gets the same rejection notice, but everyone gets one.

We don't provide specific rejection feedback unless it is a candidate that we expect to consider in the future or recommend to a third party.

I am thankful to be at a point in my career that I would be able to refuse to conduct business in the manner you describe.

I have nothing good to say about agencies.

Research the company before the interview. Be able to intelligently discuss what the company does, where they do it, performance reviews for the company from the customers. Display an interest.

Retired EE here. The above has really worked well for me. Present yourself as "interested in THIS job;" not just in "Looking for A job."

Present yourself as "interested in THIS job;" not just in "Looking for A job."

Now that we have the net there is no excuse to not do this.

I would like to add an oldie but an oft forgotten one. Dress for the job you would like to get. If the job would mean office attire don't wear jeans and a graphic tee. Don't wear something with your boobs falling out unless you are interviewing for a job that would require that. BE CLEAN! No one is going to hire the smelly kid in class.

I’ve had some other experiences. I’m not in charge of hiring anybody (though I have been in the past for much smaller positions). However, I’ve spent a long time looking for high level work and I’ve been interviewed, ignored and hired by a ton of companies over the last few years. I think most of what you wrote is important, but there are a couple of things I think would be helpful for a person who is out there trying to get a job:

#1 - You say that we shouldn't apply for multiple positions. I don't disagree, but it depends on the situation. Companies are incredibly vague when describing the positions that they are looking for. Sometimes I’ve been qualified for both a senior *insert my job title here* position and for the hourly contractual position and either one would have been great for my resume. Sometimes I haven’t been qualified for a position but it is written so poorly that I really have no idea if I am or if I am not.

I tended to apply for all of the jobs that seemed within my grasp as well as the positions that seemed a bit beneath me. If a position seemed a bit above me I usually applied for that. Luckily the organization that hired me didn’t mind that I applied for two positions over the span of about a month and had applied for another position a year before that. I got one of the top positions.

My advice is that if you are applying for multiple positions, make sure to include that information and a good reason why you are doing that on a cover letter.

#3 - I think that putting colleagues on a reference sheet is a good idea depending on what you are applying for. My ability to work with a coworker is just as important as my ability to work with a manager. I do project based and team based work. For years now I've put down a colleague that I have worked with through many projects over a very long span of time. It made sense to display that I work well with others, that networking is important to me and that I have a lot of experience doing team based work with at least one colleague.

Who knows, maybe I'd be making $100K more and would have been more continuously employed over the last few years if only I hadn't made the mistakes I did, but I doubt it. I think that your advice is good, but there are times when breaking those rules is important.

This isn't what you want to hear, and it may well get deleted, but here goes.

Your post makes you sound like exactly the kind of applicant that would go on the list.

I never said not to apply for multiple jobs. I said not to apply for every job. However, applying for multiple jobs within the same company that have completely different requirments, skill sets and expectations is going to ensure you get neither at my firm. If there are two jobs with similar skill sets, etc., by all means, apply for both.

Anyone who read my list should figure on their own that an attention to detail is required. Your post has 1 and 3, but no 2.

I don't, and hiring managers I network with don't, care whether your collegaues like you. We do care about what your boss thinks of your job performance.

I don't think your post will get deleted. Also, I'm glad you are telling me what you think. I think your post is full of great ideas, even if we disagree on those two points.

But I need to respond to your sentiments. I think there is a chance you are hiring a very different set of workers than most of the professionals I work with. I have multiple professional degrees. I do project based work and I wouldn't want to work for a company who doesn't value networking or teamwork. If your company doesn't care how someone works with others, then your company is an organization I wouldn't ever want to be involved with. That is an alien concept in what I do now and every business job I can think of. I've never done consulting work with a business who isn't interesting in who I've worked for and with in the past.

"Your post has 1 and 3, but no 2."

That is because I was responding to your first and third point. If that would put me on the "list" then I don't put a lot of weight into your ability to determine who is a quality worker and who isn't.

Also, come on, I never claimed that hiring people "care whether your collegaues like you." If we are going to be pedantic about attention to detail, then I feel obligated to point that out.

whywait Wrote:

> I don't, and hiring managers I network with don't,
> care whether your collegaues like you. We do care
> about what your boss thinks of your job
> performance.


Ah, but you are bonused/paid on retention not performance. Personnel managers through the ages will tell you that coworkers who can't work together get managers fired.

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> whywait Wrote:
>
> > I don't, and hiring managers I network with
> don't,
> > care whether your collegaues like you. We do
> care
> > about what your boss thinks of your job
> > performance.
>
>
> Ah, but you are bonused/paid on retention not
> performance. Personnel managers through the ages
> will tell you that coworkers who can't work
> together get managers fired.

+1

I have had bosses tell me in the past that they admired "how everyone here likes you." I even had one tell me I had "single-handedly" improved relations between our department and another one. Obviously, those kind of "emotional skills" don't matter in some workplaces, like the OP's, but often the opposite is true. People who can't get along with coworkers frequently cost employers a lot of time and money.

Regarding references, I have always worked for large companies that have strong policies about not giving any personal response to references, only referring you to HR. All managers were trained to give no personal references, and colleagues are the only people who could respond (and then only because they didn't know the rules). The last time I was looking for a job, I put the names of customers and co-workers. Don't totally ignore those in big companies who can't give manager references.

Great post, and comments after it too.

"Sell yourself."

I've hired hundreds of people over my career. My job in the interview is to sell my company and find out if you are a good fit. Sell yourself and I am going to be more likely to think you fit. (Unless you totally don't of course ;-) ) Confidence in your abilities sends a strong message.

Aren't cover letters a thing of the past? I apply online at Monster and Career Builder and I just hit the button to send my resume. I have my resume on LinkedIn and I get contacts from the information in my resume.

I get frustrate by companies that have their own over-the-top, anal retentive application with frigging little boxes for every fing thing.

If they want to interview you, maybe then filing out their annoying on-line form would be appropriate, but if the company just wants to skim resumes and weed out the highly undesirable, then I consider it a waste of my time to fill out their stinking on-line form.

I agree with everything you said

I own some businesses and employ about 50 people. When I'm hiring a senior person I read the cover letter more carefully than the resume.

I teach my managers to read the cover letters carefully.

If an applicant wants to say something that is about "this specific job" it will be in the cover letter.

Nevermo's point was that the industry puts less emphasis on cover letters now than it ever did before.

Cover letters are useless to me. The information I need is in the resume: the proof is in the pudding.

A Cover letter more than a few paragraphs is a resume un-read.

This is a scary truth because it is really hard to determine who will read your cover letter and who will un-read your resume because of it.

A cover letter is very important, and you are wasting your time posting your resume on-line. Find out who the hiring manager is, and send them a professional cover letter and resume.

If you can't figure out who the likely hiring manager is, and get their contact info, you probably are not smart enough to do the job in the company you are looking at.

BG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A cover letter is very important, and you are
> wasting your time posting your resume on-line.
> Find out who the hiring manager is, and send them
> a professional cover letter and resume.
>
> If you can't figure out who the likely hiring
> manager is, and get their contact info, you
> probably are not smart enough to do the job in the
> company you are looking at.


I am wasting my time by posting my resume on line? What past century are you from? 90% of my jobs are from people contacting me from my on line resumes. Some are full time and some are part time. I would like to switch from consulting to full time with benefits but it has not happened. My career was recession free until 3 years ago, then it slowed down.
Currently have a long term placement through an agency.

Many companies never post their jobs they just do resume searches. Not sure why, maybe they don't won't people making up stuff to fit the job description.

I have to pay attention to the boxes... All my hiring decisions are available for scrutiny from the public and since I hire union workers, a current employee can challenge an outside hire.
I use the application to calculate explicit experience years/months.
Cover letter and resume for composition, grammar, spelling.
Phone interview to gauge phone ettiquite.
In person interview (and I'm thorough! At least 90 minutes!) to gauge technical, personal and customer service skills.

Now, I'm at a public institution of higher learning, so YMMV. But I know I'm more than likely going to have this person on staff until one of us retires and the competition for the opening is FIERCE. 20-150 candidates for each.

I can and must be highly selective.

Good advice (I've previously done a lot of hiring as well.) The only one I differ on is #11. If you don't know an answer, don't try to fake it, but if you have an educated guess you can say something like this: "I don't know, but I'm guessing ..." or "I don't know, but here is how I would approach it." Yes, they are looking to find the scope of your technical knowledge and you don't want to fake that, but you can still use those questions where it is just past your edge to look qualified.

I am currently looking for a job, if they don't check references does that mean they were not interested?

I hope people will read it before looking for a job.......

In all of the interviewing and hiring that I do and have done I will almost always hire the most authentic person. I recall having to staff a new brokerage office a few years back and I took a little flack because I hired a young person who wore bright purple socks with his dark suit and conservative tie. I asked him about it and he simply stated that he knew what I wanted to see, but he also wanted to me to know who he was. He was one of the highest achieving employees in the new office.

One the other hand, I can't count the applicants who offered a pedantic speech outlining why the job description in the posting described their dream job exactly. I can't recall exactly but I doubt I hired any of the "fakers" as I called them.

As for the spelling errors, the incongruous fonts, and the poor formatting. Depending on the job I would accept those errors over vague experience and skills, and vaunted but unverifiable accomplishments.

Oh and the references. They are a generally useless and outdated way of verifying that you aren't hiring a ne'erdowell. We have much better ways of checking a person's background today than ten years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2014 09:54PM by jacob.

I think as much effort should be put into retaining a job and building a career should be emphasized as much as getting hired.

I would compare it to opening a bank account vs. having a well stocked bank account.

I may be biased in my comments, however, I continue to see so many examples of people that are doing so many unprofessional acts at their job. Start by turning off your phone while you are on duty.

Thank you for this post. I'm currently looking for a job as an office manager, administrative assistant or executive assistant. I've been working at the same job for 13 years and I'm anxious to move on to something that pays better and has a better work environment. I recently had an interview that I thought I aced. I did everything you said, and sent a thank-you afterward. I didn't get to the second interview, even though I think I'm very well qualified.

My problem? I'm almost 60. I'm no where near ready for retirement, and plan to work for at least another 12 years, but I feel nobody will hire me at this age. It's very discouraging.

What do you think about the age thing, whywait? Would you hire somebody at 60 if they were qualified?

Do you google them and/or look at their facebook?