If they can't conceive it is possible, if you give them something like the ces letter, they will simply look for ways to find wriggle room plausible enough to maintain belief in the absurd
TThey don't see a forest, they see an individual tree, 100 times
Just agree with them that it's true. It does truly exist as an organization, after all. Then tell them that, true or not, it sucks and is a sh!tty way to go through life. If their god sucks, it's not our fault.
You can prove the church is false by all of the historical documents that are readily available. What you can't do is convince TBM that the church is not true. I've just realized that fact does not equate to "true". What I am finding is that Truth is very subjective. IF you believe something hard enough, it will become truth no matter the facts. I think that is why so many people stay.
I totally agree. I feel like there is ACTUAL PROOF that the church is false. It's why we left. But I look at others who go through a process (usually includes a time where they almost lose their faith) and then they figure out how to talk themselves into believing it again and their testimony is stronger than ever!
I personally view that as someone with a weak mind who can't step back and look at the facts & base a decision off of that but is instead influenced too strongly by how they were raised and taught...but they don't see it that way.
I really wonder how many people, if they were presented ALL the facts about the LDS church, and if they were grown adults, with no brainwashing from the LDS church, I wonder how many people would join.
Just today I had a discussion with my TBM wife about how I do not believe anything that JS did. She said, "Don't believe everything you read or everything people tell you." I turned this around to say that she believes JS and perhaps he wasn't telling the truth about all of his revelations & translations, etc. End of conversation!! She will not listen to the argument she presents to me. She believes fully in TSCC and that's where every discussion ends. She will not listen to anything contrary to her perception of the truth. But we'll live happily ever-after disagreeing about JS and TSCC.
When I was TBM I had some Christian friends that tried to 'save' me and shared with me a lot of the facts about Mormonism that we all know... but I was active for 10 years after that.
I was so convinced that TSCC was true that researching their claims by using SHIELDS/FAIRLDS was enough to calm any doubts I might have had.
Of course they also came at me from the point of view that their version of Christianity was correct, so mine was obviously wrong.
You can't convince someone of anything unless they accept that they may be mistaken... which is why Mormons stress "knowing <insert doctrine here>".
I went through exactly the same thing, AKA Alma. I didn't hear a word they said and just carried on as a Mormon. And at the time, the apologist sites soothed any worries that I might have had.
It seems that you have to be in the right frame of mind, where truth becomes more important to you than needing the Church to be true.
I agree! It isn't proving the church false that is the problem, it's proving the church is true by proving the heavily annotated and referenced anti-mormon materials to be false.
You can never prove a negative, but you can find a lot of doubt on a positive statement.
The burden of proof is always on the one making the claim. Mormons seem to think they can claim the moon is made of cheese and it's your job to prove otherwise. They have the burden of proof and they have failed to provide adequate evidence. Counterarguments have discredited what little evidence they have brought forth and provided more evidence that their story is a fraud.
Mormons think that because they were taught this from birth, it is the job of "antis" to prove them wrong. They are the ones seeking converts, but they won't do the work of verifying their claims.
Actually, I think it would be possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was made up in the early 19th century. It won't convince a TBM, but it would a reasonable person.
The question is based on the premise of a strawman argument that falsely sets the Mormonism to be true. It's never been proven to be true, and the burden of proof is on them to first prove that it is. It's a silly proposition.
read new Book titled Book of Mormon Book of Lies by Sheets. The book advises where story lines, quotes and names came from in the Book of Book. yes it names specific references to several books written prior to 1830.
Galileo thought the Earth revolved around the Sun. The Catholic Church with its millions of followers thought the Sun revolved around the Earth. The Church excommunicated Galileo, but the Sun did not change positions with the Earth based on their votes.
You are wrong, you can prove it false to anyone. The problem is that some people choose to ignore the proofs.
For those who bring up the famous Carl Sagan idea you are applying it incorrectly. The idea is the basis for what we sometimes call the scientific method. The idea is not that crazy stuff requires crazy evidence, the idea is that evidence to the positive must out way evidence to the negative. In the case of an "extraordinary" claim there is a demand for extraordinary positive evidence since the negative evidence tends to be normal, easy, and overwhelming. Mormonism's extraordinary evidence is set so high because the ordinary negative evidence is so abundant.
The reason it seems to me that you can't prove it to TBM's is NOT because the facts don't affect their belief in the church its because they refuse to even LOOK at the facts. Story after story I read on this board I read of Mormons going ballistic because one of us tries to present the facts to them. Instead of taking the time to study the evidence they stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalalala, I CANT HEAR YOU! The fact is Mormons CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH because it ROCKS their fragile testimonies so they stick their head in the sand and REFUSE to even look at it.
Mormons have been bearing testimony that the church is true since most of them were 5 or 6 years old.
They have either been repeating this mantra or have been hearing it for nearly their entire lives as a member. Even those who joined as adults and have been actively attending Sacrament meeting and Fast and Testimony meeting are getting reinforced in their minds that TSCC is true.
Never underestimate the power of repetition and habit. This is what the tbm mind is locked and addicted to - The Church is True!
Research shows that adopting an agreeing but extreme version of their opinion actually causes them to reflect more seriously.
One example might be..."yes its so true. If TSM told me to wear a bomb vest and take out the Pope I'd so be ready for it. We need to obey in every instance. I know you'd do the same because once you k ow your ready to die or kill to defend the truth".