Continuing:
2nd thread: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1338441
1st thread: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1338032


Well, I should probably let this go, but all the silly face-saving efforts here have really irritated me.


Beth's Son Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shame on you for thinking that you have the right
> to judge the worth of other people based on your own
> preconceived notions and limited life experience.


Shame on me? For doing my job? Shame on me for participating in the process that decides which one in three applicants gets the benefit of my institution's resources (i.e. hardworking taxpayers' money)?

Why do you think I, and my colleagues, are tasked with making these decisions? Perhaps--and brace yourself for a little cognitive dissonance--it's because of our "[limited] life experience." I have nearly 30 years of teaching experience, and have worked with thousands of students over the years. You are [purportedly] a student who has yet to even graduate or apply to a graduate program. Excuse me for clinging to to the wisdom I've gleaned over the years, rather than capitulating to your feel-good baloney.

I once had to find a replacement GTA to take over a class because the young lady teaching it quit, not only the teaching assignment but grad school altogether. When I asked her why she wanted to leave she told me that "it got 'yucky'!" Your mom claims you're an undergraduate CS student. Do you want Ms. Yucky teaching your class? Do you want some mama's boy teaching your class, someone who needs his mama to pave the way and open doors for him? Or would you rather have a confident, competent self-starter? When we award a student a coveted slot, and expend limited resources on them, we want to make sure that those monies--not to mention our own time and efforts--are not wasted on someone who doesn't want to be there, or ought not be there in the first place.

There's no shame in us considering "maturity" as one of many criteria when determining who gets into our PhD program. And shame on YOU for implying otherwise.


Beth's Son Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's abhorrent to me that there are people out there
> who hold the futures of others in their hands and
> deem those people unworthy


We don't deem anyone "unworthy." Most applicants are very good, but we have to make an honest assessment of who's most likely to be successful because of limited resources. The process is very objective. We look at
-standardized test scores
-GPA
-type of course work completed
-any journal publications authored or co-authored (big plus)
-etc

We also consider "showstoppers," like maturity. I don't mean maturity like having pulled a prank, but if you need mommy on campus to feed you, burp you and change your diapers... then we just can't afford to take the risk. It's not fair to other worthy candidates, the taxpayers we ask to foot the bill, the faculty that will invest their time in you, nor the students you may come in contact with.

I'm sure you and your mama can come up with a better system. Maybe we should take in whomever really, really, really wants it the most. Or holds their breath the longest. Or eats the most hot dogs. Maybe we should just give a PhD to everybody who wants one. Would that be less "abhorrent?"


Beth's Son Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You've probably met a lot of people in your life, so
> it's natural for you to to label and catalog them.
> Categorization is the default method for
> understanding the world around you, after all; we
> deal with new stimuli by likening them to things
> we've already experienced so that we have some frame
> of reference by which we can grasp the new things.
>
> People are complex, though. People have decades of
> continuous existence under their belts. People
> differ from one another in necessarily infinite ways.
> You can no more comprehend the entire being of a
> person than you can count all of the numbers
> between zero and one.


You know what that drivel sounds like to me? It's sounds more like it was written by Beth's Son's mama then by "Beth's Son." You know, the lady who already confessed that she wished she had studied Demography. You know what else? I've never heard one of my students refer to the others as "CS kiddies," or talk about "suckling." That sounds more like a middle aged lady to me.

So, I'm going to write the balance of this assuming that "Beth's Son" is really Beth's Son's mama (i.e. Beth).


Beth's Son Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Certainly, you can divide a subject into simpler
> and simpler specimens, but the grand fallacy is that
> there is always a finite point that you cannot
> surpass. In reality, there is only a finite point at
> which our vocabularies become insufficient to
> describe what we're observing.


I have a pretty good vocabulary, and I can tell you what we're observing: bloviating! Beth's Son's mom is pretending to be Beth's Son, and writing a bunch of crap crap crap to try to save face given the screed she posted last night. Now we're supposed to believe that she personally knows half the CS faculty at Imaginary U, and that industry experts are crawling out of the woodwork to pass along career tips for her son...

Well, I teach at Reality U, not Make Believe U, or Feel Good U. If you don't believe me about these things, go ahead and head to campus to “work it” and give him a “leg up." But I think you'll be unpleasantly surprised at how his odds are "skewed." In the mean time, I'll be on the lookout for applicants who's mother's name is Beth. ;-)

Wow, sorry I just can't help myself!

Ugh, shut up already. I hate you all.

Bad times.

As somebody that has dealt with a lot of spoiled mama's boys, I would never hire one or take one as a grad student either and I am a highly respected engineer with a Fortune 500 firm and a professor at a highly respected university.

I actually have been the one that has gotten calls from people that think me having heard their kid's name will make me choose them in the selection process. Instead, I am going to see that kid as incredibly immature to the point where they need their mommy or daddy to fix everything for them and give them whatever they want.

Both the mother and the son need to grow up. This seems to be a common problem with Mormons in that they shelter and baby the crap out of their kids until the kid thinks they are superior and some special snowflake and has never had any exposure to the real world. Sorry but the real world is not what's written in the BOM or what your patriarchal blessing says.

Your kid needs to learn to swim with the real world, and instead you are sinking him.

Beth - seriously, don't take it personal. It's a bit rough, but isn't it nice to get someone's unvarnished opinion? If you ran into an old friend in the lobby who could "pull some strings" would you get real input or b.s.?

It's a rough response, but it is one person's apparently honest and experienced opinion. I'd give it some weight without taking to hard personally.

As I said below, I'd like advice delivered in this fashion - I do like it. I like people to get right in my mug and give me their honest input. We are all usually afraid to be so direct for fear of offending people. You may have just received some valuable input if you can get past the blunt presentation.

That's my two cents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 11:54PM by thingsithink.

I need to cool down too, and frozen margaritas works all the time...

Ignore this hateful crap, he/she is not worth it. No need to go anywhere, stay right here...

Don't let him/her bother you. HE/SHE IS NOT WORTH IT!!!

Anon for this one... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Continuing:
> 2nd thread:
> http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1338441
> 1st thread:
> http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1338032
>
>
> Well, I should probably let this go, but all the
> silly face-saving efforts here have really
> irritated me.
>
>
> Beth's Son Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Shame on you for thinking that you have the
> right
> > to judge the worth of other people based on your
> own
> > preconceived notions and limited life
> experience.
>
>
> Shame on me? For doing my job? Shame on me for
> participating in the process that decides which
> one in three applicants gets the benefit of my
> institution's resources (i.e. hardworking
> taxpayers' money)?
>
> Why do you think I, and my colleagues, are tasked
> with making these decisions? Perhaps--and brace
> yourself for a little cognitive dissonance--it's
> because of our " life experience." I have nearly
> 30 years of teaching experience, and have worked
> with thousands of students over the years. You are
> a student who has yet to even graduate or apply
> to a graduate program. Excuse me for clinging to
> to the wisdom I've gleaned over the years, rather
> than capitulating to your feel-good baloney.
>
> I once had to find a replacement GTA to take over
> a class because the young lady teaching it quit,
> not only the teaching assignment but grad school
> altogether. When I asked her why she wanted to
> leave she told me that "it got 'yucky'!" Your mom
> claims you're an undergraduate CS student. Do you
> want Ms. Yucky teaching your class? Do you want
> some mama's boy teaching your class, someone who
> needs his mama to pave the way and open doors for
> him? Or would you rather have a confident,
> competent self-starter? When we award a student a
> coveted slot, and expend limited resources on
> them, we want to make sure that those monies--not
> to mention our own time and efforts--are not
> wasted on someone who doesn't want to be there, or
> ought not be there in the first place.
>
> There's no shame in us considering "maturity" as
> one of many criteria when determining who gets
> into our PhD program. And shame on YOU for
> implying otherwise.
>
>
> Beth's Son Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's abhorrent to me that there are people out
> there
> > who hold the futures of others in their hands
> and
> > deem those people unworthy
>
>
> We don't deem anyone "unworthy." Most applicants
> are very good, but we have to make an honest
> assessment of who's most likely to be successful
> because of limited resources. The process is very
> objective. We look at
> -standardized test scores
> -GPA
> -type of course work completed
> -any journal publications authored or co-authored
> (big plus)
> -etc
>
> We also consider "showstoppers," like maturity. I
> don't mean maturity like having pulled a prank,
> but if you need mommy on campus to feed you, burp
> you and change your diapers... then we just can't
> afford to take the risk. It's not fair to other
> worthy candidates, the taxpayers we ask to foot
> the bill, the faculty that will invest their time
> in you, nor the students you may come in contact
> with.
>
> I'm sure you and your mama can come up with a
> better system. Maybe we should take in whomever
> really, really, really wants it the most. Or holds
> their breath the longest. Or eats the most hot
> dogs. Maybe we should just give a PhD to everybody
> who wants one. Would that be less "abhorrent?"
>
>
> Beth's Son Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You've probably met a lot of people in your
> life, so
> > it's natural for you to to label and catalog
> them.
> > Categorization is the default method for
> > understanding the world around you, after all;
> we
> > deal with new stimuli by likening them to things
>
> > we've already experienced so that we have some
> frame
> > of reference by which we can grasp the new
> things.
> >
> > People are complex, though. People have decades
> of
> > continuous existence under their belts. People
> > differ from one another in necessarily infinite
> ways.
> > You can no more comprehend the entire being of
> a
> > person than you can count all of the numbers
> > between zero and one.
>
>
> You know what that drivel sounds like to me? It's
> sounds more like it was written by Beth's Son's
> mama then by "Beth's Son." You know, the lady who
> already confessed that she wished she had studied
> Demography. You know what else? I've never heard
> one of my students refer to the others as "CS
> kiddies," or talk about "suckling." That sounds
> more like a middle aged lady to me.
>
> So, I'm going to write the balance of this
> assuming that "Beth's Son" is really Beth's Son's
> mama (i.e. Beth).
>
>
> Beth's Son Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Certainly, you can divide a subject into simpler
>
> > and simpler specimens, but the grand fallacy is
> that
> > there is always a finite point that you cannot
> > surpass. In reality, there is only a finite
> point at
> > which our vocabularies become insufficient to
> > describe what we're observing.
>
>
> I have a pretty good vocabulary, and I can tell
> you what we're observing: bloviating! Beth's Son's
> mom is pretending to be Beth's Son, and writing a
> bunch of crap crap crap to try to save face given
> the screed she posted last night. Now we're
> supposed to believe that she personally knows half
> the CS faculty at Imaginary U, and that industry
> experts are crawling out of the woodwork to pass
> along career tips for her son...
>
> Well, I teach at Reality U, not Make Believe U, or
> Feel Good U. If you don't believe me about these
> things, go ahead and head to campus to “work
> it” and give him a “leg up." But I think
> you'll be unpleasantly surprised at how his odds
> are "skewed." In the mean time, I'll be on the
> lookout for applicants who's mother's name is
> Beth. ;-)

Jesus I can't believe all this verbal vomit and hateful bullshit being poured out on Beth and her son for simply having a differing opinion. Wow ...... Can you be any meaner to a Mother and her son? Jesus Christ. You are shameful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 01:29AM by Susan I/S.

Anon for this one... Wrote:
--------------------------------

. . . Well, I should probably let this go. . .

---------------



Yes, you really should have let it go.

If your views are correct, then the young man is going nowhere and your criticism serves no purpose but to hurt people. Is that your goal? Or are you so afraid that you might be wrong that you feel the need to reiterate your views ad nauseum? An argument, after all, grows truer the more times you repeat it.

It's fortunate that you have cloaked yourself in anonymity, for you don't look good right now.

You seem to be taking this rather personally. If you've taught as many students as you say you have, then you know that you say what you have to say and then let go. The kid is either going to listen to your advice and guidance or not.

My rather large graduate program lost some students along the way. I'm sure that that the professors in charge of student selection did the best that they could, but things happen. Some students decide they made a mistake. Some make a slight course correction and get siphoned off to a sister program.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 11:43PM by summer.

I agree Lawyer.... Anon has no credibility whatsoever. Evidently he/she is not as wonderfully right as they would like to appear since they have to be "Anon"... nice going anon. Real mature.
Come back and darken our door again when you want to try to make
a young man and his mother feel like shit. You should feel real proud of yourself.

Such a dearth of empathy doesn't inspire a lot of confidence about the quality of university faculties.

My good luck that you decided to give it another whirl tonight. I'm not sure why, but both of your posts have given me a great laugh.

I'm pretty sure you nailed it (it was all mama writing). But your way of laying it out just cracks me up.

Another thing - I could use advice like that in my life (you're not alone Beth). You know, don't waste my time with pleasantries, don't let me down gently - just give me a boot in the ass. :) Are you interested in some personal coaching on the side?

And maybe this is your chance to say what you wish you could say to some of the students you have to deal with?

Who knows, but, while I hope the best for whoever may or may not be going to school, I have to say I've gotten a huge kick out of your posts.

You are right, I have never been mormon, though I almost got sucked in. It does fascinate me though, almost like any other human social experiment would.

But the mormon world and way of doing things and raising a family is something very few of you seem to walk away from when you leave the church. You don't realize that the rest of the world has no patience for those ideas and the smothering that you seem to feel is necessary to shelter your children from the big bad world that they will have to live in one day. It also explains why a lot of people on this forum haven't emotionally matured past a high school level.

I think this young man's idea that if there are poor job prospects, why not rack up more debt, is incredibly short sighted and immature. He will come to the point where he can no longer get any financing for further education, the job prospects will be no different and he will be bagging groceries to meet the minimum payments.

Hey, 'Anon for this one' guy, let it go.